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iamnuff
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PostSubject: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:37 pm

i have no idea if this has already been mentioned, (i know there was something about hunters and masquerade violations)

but one thing that always bugged me was that you never get to talk to hunters, i get that they are not the most understanding but atleast a 2 line dialoge with chastity before she attacks would be nice

one of my characters had NO combat skills at all, and i did pretty well, talking my way out of things, stealth when you need it, or demention when fights are unavoidable but NONE of that works in her quest, you can't even sneak attack... as it gets nearer to the endgame vanilla gets more and more streamlined, all the multi-path method to doing the quests gets slowly taken out and you have no choice but to fight more and more, i understand you have done a lot to migrate this, however hunters are the prime example of this, you NEVER get a chance to talk them down.

i get that they are VERY focused on killing you, but 10 points in persuade should get you something, a little hesitation, some doubt hell it doesnt even have to work, just get them thinking that this might not be the right way (then his/her backup runs in and you have to fight anyway) but they can't cant be totally immune to your charms

intimidate might work, i can see a lone hunter wanting to get some backup before fighting you... (do hunters even know fear?)

powerfull mindscrew disciplines like dominate might work too,
and remember- Mr internet says: "The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it."

so, whadda you think? i dont know too much about how hunters oparate but i dont think they have total protection to higher level disciplines, and no supernatural protection against mundane charms.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:23 pm

You raise a good point. I'll still kill them, but I can see how it would be nice to at least try to talk them out of it, especially for high Humanity vampires.

Of course, to do this would mean new dialogue, new .lip files for the mouth movements, and all for a very brief conversation that doesn't really affect the outcome of the game. I can't see too many modders going to this trouble. But go ahead and try it, and tell us how it works out. Very Happy
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iamnuff
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:27 pm

well, i guess your right,


on another note, did you say mouthmovements are done by .LIP files? heh, thats pretty funny...


dont mind me im a little out of it on painkillers


woooooo denstists.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:08 pm

Somehow, everyone and their momma's pretending to be malkavian is starting to bug me.
I'll write about the real hunter interaction tomorrow, i'm tired now.
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iamnuff
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:11 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Somehow, everyone and their momma's pretending to be malkavian is starting to bug me.
I'll write about the real hunter interaction tomorrow, i'm tired now.

who is pretending to be malk?

anyway, i suspected there would be some hunter interaction in TFN or maby even in CE1.4 (im not that far in yet)
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:18 pm

iamnuff wrote:

who is pretending to be malk?

anyway, i suspected there would be some hunter interaction in TFN or maby even in CE1.4 (im not that far in yet)
I think he's referring to someone else, because you didn't sound Malkavian to me.

And yes, I can say there's a little hunter action in TFN... hehe. No details, just a few "WTF!" moments. Of course, you can say that about Bloodlines too...
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:34 am

Hey Iamnuff!

I really liked your idea and have been thinking on the same lines as you for awhile. Time is the reason I couldn't add more hunter interactions but TFN does expand on the Hunter relationship with Kindred a little, but I want to go further down that road. I was even thinking how cool could it be to be able to hire an ex-Society of Leopold member later in the game to help you on a quest.

Imagine having a partner you hired, who still hates you because your Kindred but really needs the money, so you have a Hunter with a crossbow helping you out on a long crazy quest, like the Warrens or something.

Something I was toying with and I'd probably have to record the voice myself which I don't mind, just need to stop at Walmart and pick up a mic.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:05 am

Hm, I don't know.
If they are just mercenaries, talking them down, or paying better, might get you somewhere.
But if they are real Society of Leopold hunters, they probably are so brainwashed, that there is no brain left for a Malk or Ventrue to work with.
And a true fundamentalist doesn't know fear. He just doesn't have enough common sense for it...

And for Chastity. Why would I even try to talk to her? If I accept VVs quest, then I know I have to kill her as fast and silent as I can. If I can't do that for some reson, I have to refuse the quest.

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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:01 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Hm, I don't know.
If they are just mercenaries, talking them down, or paying better, might get you somewhere.
But if they are real Society of Leopold hunters, they probably are so brainwashed, that there is no brain left for a Malk or Ventrue to work with.
And a true fundamentalist doesn't know fear. He just doesn't have enough common sense for it...

And for Chastity. Why would I even try to talk to her? If I accept VVs quest, then I know I have to kill her as fast and silent as I can. If I can't do that for some reson, I have to refuse the quest.

- geek

i think failing a pusuade would be funny, you get the option just like normal, but it doesnt stop the fight at all,
but i think a powerful endgame ventrue should be able to change their fanaticism to protecting you or something, hey if it works on powerful vampires then it should work on batshit humans too, (mmm batshit, demention might work, none of them seem very stable anyway)

as for Chastity, i suppose your right, i was thinking pursuade her to go away and tell VV shes dead, or just a couple of lines where she spouts "die foul demon" or some such" but i guess it would be too much work just for that.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:40 pm

Ahem. I really like this idea, it would be rewarding for a manipulative social character. You could avoid beign attacked, or pretend that you're not a vampire and direct him somewhere else (basically removing him from the map), or even lure him to a trap or something. This, of course, only in low-level hunters (the bald and the woman, but not in the society of leopold map).

About having a hired hunter, i'm against it. Somehow "needing money" doesn't seem enough for you to join with your greatest enemy. Plus it would make the game far easier.

It would be nice to seduce/manipulate chastity(or other female hunters, male hunters to female vamps) to a dark place in hollywood hub where you can feed/kill her without much of a fuss (also, it always amazes me how she and other hunters can detect your vampireness on sight :O).

Overall, a good idea, might need some polishing though.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:15 pm

Perhaps Chastity has a heat tracking device hidden somewhere in her costume. If she can have a sword you don't see before she actually attacks you with it... scratch

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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:57 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:

(also, it always amazes me how she and other hunters can detect your vampireness on sight :O).

True Faith could give a very bad thing called True Sight. Very bad to the Undead. Even lover levels of Obfuscate don't help... Simillar to Lupine's Gifts of true Sight, oddly.

Wait, why not to introduce a Lupine-Hunter with True Faith? Or Samuel Haight Question

JOKE, JOKE! Keep that stake away, I sai-
*Feral enters torpor*

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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:59 pm

ohhh Samuel Haight ! No, please, not the Garou Mage Embraced Hunter ! omfg !
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:06 pm

Damnit Feral, don't tempt our fangs Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:22 pm

Feral wrote:


JOKE, JOKE! Keep that stake away, I sai-
*Feral enters torpor*


HAHAHA This made me LAWL Big time! lol!
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iamnuff
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:02 pm

i thought hunters got something at level 1 that let them see supernaturals,

i remember reading that its bad because it only activates the first time when they see one, and the vampire/ect ALWAYS KNOWS YOU KNOW. so most hunters dont suvive the first encounter.

edit: thats from Hunter The Reckoning

the hunters are also called "The Imbued"

that could make for a fun little mission... you walk down a ally somewhere and some poor girl gets a vision from the messengers "IT DOES NOT BREATHE" and a image of you with massive fangs sounds nice and creepy.

like the mission with samantha

you could, explain and talk her down (M violation), convince her shes crazy (she leaves and gets psyciatric help and/or you get hunters after you later when one hears what she saw but no violation because nobody else belives her) or kill her for -humanity

you could even make her a espy of buffy the vampire slayer HA (or is that risking a lawsuit?)

link to the wiki: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Imbued_%28oWOD%29#The_Imbuing just because
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:50 pm

iamnuff wrote:
i thought hunters got something at level 1 that let them see supernaturals,

i remember reading that its bad because it only activates the first time when they see one, and the vampire/ect ALWAYS KNOWS YOU KNOW. so most hunters dont suvive the first encounter.

edit: thats from Hunter The Reckoning

the hunters are also called "The Imbued"

Well, you see, there are hunters, and then there are Hunters. To me, hunters (lower case) are the Church-sponsored ones, who talk about the 'Spawn of Satan', blah, blah. These are the ones in Bloodlines.

Hunters (upper case) are the Imbued guys, talked about in Hunter: The Reckoning. They get their powers from 'The Messengers' (whoever they are), and can see through Obfuscate, resist Dominate, etc.

Both are bad news, of course. I can't see the Society of Leopold teaming up with a vampire, no matter how much they need the cash -- unless it's a doublecross. The Imbued ones might do it, depending on how their particular flavor of Hunter views the Undead. It would have to be a pretty good reason, though... You know, returning-the-ring-to-Mordor kind of stuff, or Lord Voldemort breaking free. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:55 am

The society of Leopold - the one with hunters in LA aren't all imbued, very few imbued exist AT ALL let alone in one city as an organised force.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:44 am

Bach would be an imbued then?
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:07 am

well seen as people only get imbued when they face the supernaturals i ment YOU could be the target if such a thing. as in, he/she is NOT a hunter, s/he was just imbued 5 seconds ago when you walked up to her in a allyway and she got a vision from a messenger and all the freakout that that suggests.

i can see someone freaking out at that, and what you say in the convosation would decide whever they choose fight or flight, a extremely social vampire might be able to talk her down, afterall YOU are her first contract with vampires, so you play jacks role in a explanation, a fun little trick would be for a ventrue to have the option to dominate and it not do anything (like with therese) because imbued are immune to low level mindscrews

either just in a random allyway or as part of a bigger quest.
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:41 am

PGM1961 wrote:

I can't see the Society of Leopold teaming up with a vampire, no matter how much they need the cash -- unless it's a doublecross. The Imbued ones might do it, depending on how their particular flavor of Hunter views the Undead. It would have to be a pretty good reason, though... You know, returning-the-ring-to-Mordor kind of stuff, or Lord Voldemort breaking free. Very Happy

Maybe an working alliance to hunt down a Baali coven? It wouldn't require that much dialog... Warrens map could be well reused after Warrens quest, and PC would be strong enough at this point. Or would it be too difficoult?
Story wise even Society of Turtles (Leopold is a nice name for a turtle...) would consider alliance with you against Infernalists. When they are dealt with, durability of said alliance may come into question, of course. Twisted Evil

Bag of laughs if you were Baali yourselves Laughing

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Bach would be an imbued then?

Not necesarily. He seems to have high levels of True Faith and truckload of Numina. Not to mention attitude problem, that would make him a good Brujah. Brujah with True Faih lol!
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:44 am

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Bach would be an imbued then?

Errr... no. Bach works for the Society of Leopold. Just replay the mission where you attack them in their hideout - he is definitely not Imbued. He's a freaky old guy with vengeance issues - a freaky old guy with a flamethrower and True Faith, mind you - but otherwise just a 'normal', human hunter. As if that wasn't bad enough.
Luckily, he can't shoot very well. Guy needs glasses. ('You missed!')

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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:58 pm

Yukie. Could she be considered an imbued hunter of the Avenger creed, that is only defined as Shih in the east?

After all, she knows you're undead on sight, but doesn't do anything unless provoked. 0:
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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:27 pm

I don't know for the Society of Leopold as an organization. But Bach would never compromise. He most probably wouldn't even work with vampires to bring down Satan himself. Probably not even if a voice from the heavens or a burning thorn bush told him to...

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PostSubject: Re: hunter interaction   Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:29 pm

Sio wrote:
Yukie. Could she be considered an imbued hunter of the Avenger creed, that is only defined as Shih in the east?

After all, she knows you're undead on sight, but doesn't do anything unless provoked. 0:
Good point. It's possible, but she never really displays any powers. As for spotting you... have you seen yourself lately? Apparently, one skill your character never learns is how to spend blood points and mimic humans (Flush your skin, make your heart beat, etc.). If you doubt me, take a look at your hands while picking a lock. No hand lotion is going to help you, pal. Smile

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I don't know for the Society of Leopold as an organization. But Bach would never compromise. He most probably wouldn't even work with vampires to bring down Satan himself. Probably not even if a voice from the heavens or a burning thorn bush told him to...
Exactly. Bach knows those 'Satanspawn' are sneaky; he'd suspect some vampiric trick. However, I bet he'd act like he was going along, and set up some ambush with about 50 hunters. affraid
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