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 Dementation 1.2 News in Here

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:58 pm

Ok I figured I would go ahead and setup a Dementation thread so you guys can monitor the progress. I will go ahead and post ideas, news, screenshots, etc... in this page for now.

So far I have the overhaul skeleton structure of this new Discipline done. I'm pretty confident with how it was setup and have already tested that everything works together well. I am doing some balance tweaks and then I need to begin work on the new Graphical and Sound FX that will be used for each discipline.

Below I have posted the new names that will be used along with a brief description on what the power does. All of this is subject to change if need be, nothing is set in stone at this point.

Tier 1: Hysteria - As per vanilla version, not much to say just a simple temporary mez power.

Tier 2: Insight - This new power allows the Malkavian to temporarily gain a +3 to Inspections and Research feats.

Tier 3: Babble - This new power allows the Malkavian to give any NPC a temporary "psychic labotomy" if you will. This makes the targets see and act as if they were children again reducing all combat feats, soak feats, and defensive feats by a -5. This power does no damage on it's own but does work on supernaturals and is nearly impossible to defend against.

Tier 4: Shattered Minds - This new power is much like Hysteria on a mass scale targeting a large radius. However unlike Hysteria while the NPCs are in a mez state they will not be able to defend themselves. The next attack or hit on the mezzed NPC will suffer extreme damage along with the normal damage you would normally do. Typically this will kill the target in 1 single attack wether it be a punch, tire iron, or a gun. This power does work on supernaturals but on a smaller scale. (By far the funnest power I've ever created or played, it's so much fun!!)

Tier 5: Lingering Malaise - This attack is the most powerful single mental ranged attack of any discipline which is the reason for it's high cost in blood and recharge. Now others will understand why it is wise to fear the Malkavians as this power not only traps the victim inside their own mind (eventually killing mortals outright), but while they are trapped inside their mind the Malkavian is free to attack and damage them without releasing them from their own mental prison. Also this power does damage over time constantly hurting the victim until death or they are released. This power does extreme damage to supernaturals but costs 2 blood to use and will have a 45 seconds recharge time (highest in the game). Note: This power is best reserved for powerful beings as it is almost a waste to use on mortals because of the high cost.


Well there you have it guys, hopefully this will help spark some conversation and debate and allows us to start chatting again, it's been quiet on here for the past few days. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:09 am

Sounds good, but I'm not sure about "Insight". A Malk already has a permanent bonus of +2 to Inspection. And the reseach-bonus would save about 30xp for studying the highgrade books. That's a new ability from scratch to 5, or 2 Disciplines from 3 to 4.
I must confess, I didn't pay much attention on the developement of the other Disciplines, so I can't say if they give your character similar advantages.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:04 am

Maybe insight can be made to be +4/+2, but otherwise, It looks completely awesome, especially the higher levels... Tremble before the power of insanity Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:10 am

I must say that I'm qute satisfied with tier 1,3,4,5. Aspecially four and five. Really powerful and scary.
The only issue I see is that in order to create an atmosphere of madness and insanity, you will have to make the discipline graphics look incredibly. The graphics needs to be beautiful, but yet scary.
The feeling of madness and insanity around you ought to be accomplished somehow Smile

The only discipline I dislike is tier 2. It is useless if you ask me. What is the purpose of this discipline?

You are a Malkavian.
That means you have + 2 inspection.

Inspection feat is raised by putting points in investigation and perception.

For every ranged player perception is obligatory. Malkavians also have auspex which raises perception -> raises inspection.
Malkavian with auspex tier 2 has an inspection feat at 4. I haven't really noticed a difference in inspection above 2, correct me if I'm wrong. All the things are quite easy to notice even with a low inspection... and actually there aren't so many places you can use this.
Not to mention that if you are raising auspex and perception + Malkavian's bonus + this discipline = around 10 inspection. Do you actually need that ?

Not to mention that Investigation is the worthless ability ever... I've never spent a single point in it.

Research is raised by putting poins in Intellegence and Scholarship.
Yeah, research is quite handy.
Most of the players will put points in Scholarship cause it gives them not only research, but persuasion as well.
And persuasion is the most powerful mental ability.
Intellegence gives research and intimidate. Intimidate is really weak at the moment. The weakest of all mental abilities. Still it will be fun to play.

Offtopic: I really think that Intimidate and Investigation/Inspection need an overhaul.

With your great overhaul Seduction is now not far behind Persuasion. Maybe they are even equal.

At the moment I guess that the majority of players won't raise Intellegence too much, but if Intimidate is overhauled, it will be worth spending points in it.

Usually a person cannot be scary, seductive and persuasive at the same time. It only makes sense if you go for one of the three mental abilities.
So you have 2 paths to choose from if you want a research feat.
Intimidation + research or Persuasion + research
or both.

Offtopic: I think the entire character sheet needs an overhaul. The game isn't balanced at the moment.

It will be good if someone can post all the books in the game, the stat they raise (from x to x) and the research skill they require.
We should look out not to give the players the opportunity of building an ultimate vampire. Godlike vampire will totaly ruin the roleplay element of the game.

Offtopic: Is the bug that lets you buy a book twice or more still present in Camarilla Edition?

If it is, this + 3 research might let players make an ultimate fighting and social vampire. And that's bad.

You should also pass this to burgermaster0 (Clan Quest modder). I haven't played his mod and I'm not aware how much exp you get from his new quests, but making this game unbalanced will only ruin the game.
If he is giving a lot of extra exp, then maybe he should raise the prices of the abilities, disciplines and attributes.

This post is getting way too long so I'm just going to wait for your responses now.

EDIT: On second thoughts, giving a research bonus is just way too OP. Maybe you should replace the research feat with intimidate feat. Madness is scary you know... geek
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 pm

ACK Where do I begin, YamiRaziel got on his soapbox here so I better give some answers right quick lol.

Let clear some things up first off. Intelligence doesn't raise Intimidate, it raises Hacking and Research.

You said giving a research bonus is OP and instead give it the bonus to Intimidate. Thats worthless because the power will automatically turn off when you enter dialogue so it won't help you.

Also, I forgot to mention I am going around various maps and planting special items that are worth some decent cash. I plan on hiding these items in very obscure and dark places so only those with a higher inspection 5+ will be able to find them making inspection not so....."worthless".

The idea of giving a bonus of +3 to inspection and research is...

1. Working around the Lore of WoD that Malkavians have "inside" knowledge of such things. When I think Malkavian I think of someone insane but extremely acute to things that others would never notice. With Insight the voices inside their heads with heighten telling them how to understand books that they otherwise would not understand, and see things they would otherwise not see.

2. For game mechanic reasons Insight is basically a way for Malkavians to rely on their Dementation to avoid spending extra XP on inspection and research freeing up some XP for other things. It's purely a utilitarian power, one that will be extremely handy both in the early game and later as well. I made Insight last for 2 minutes so that the player can freely walk around looking for hidden items without having to constantly renew the power.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:32 pm

Hm... It seems my bloodlines is out of date.

Can you tell me which attribitute, ability raises which feat.

Still if I'm not mistaken again, perception still raises the inspection feat.
If this is true, as I said Malkavian with auspex tier 2 has an inspection feat at 4. Adding 1 more point and here we have inspection 5 Smile
In my opinion boosting research feat is way too OP.
By purchasing Dementation level 2, you are not only buying inspection and 3 research feat, you are getting closer to tier 3,4,5. You are saving a lot of exp.

Research is really powerful. It allows you to get free stats. I forgot how much tier 2 costs but it wasn't much. So with 6 exp you are buying tier 2 + 3 research feat.... affraid Shocked
This ability will make malkavian save way too much exp.

Still I might be wrong about all of this. As it turned out, my bloodlines is out of date. Still I would like you all to think about it.

The idea of the discipline actually isn't bad at all. If you add some voices whispering in your ear, it will definetely make you feel... deranged Laughing

Zer0Morph do you think that after all discipline overhauls you've decided to make, you will need to overhaul the character sheet as well?
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:55 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
Hm... It seems my bloodlines is out of date.

Can you tell me which attribitute, ability raises which feat.

Still if I'm not mistaken again, perception still raises the inspection feat.
If this is true, as I said Malkavian with auspex tier 2 has an inspection feat at 4. Adding 1 more point and here we have inspection 5 Smile
In my opinion boosting research feat is way too OP.
By purchasing Dementation level 2, you are not only buying inspection and 3 research feat, you are getting closer to tier 3,4,5. You are saving a lot of exp.

Research is really powerful. It allows you to get free stats. I forgot how much tier 2 costs but it wasn't much. So with 6 exp you are buying tier 2 + 3 research feat.... affraid Shocked
This ability will make malkavian save way too much exp.

Still I might be wrong about all of this. As it turned out, my bloodlines is out of date. Still I would like you all to think about it.

The idea of the discipline actually isn't bad at all. If you add some voices whispering in your ear, it will definetely make you feel... deranged Laughing

Zer0Morph do you think that after all discipline overhauls you've decided to make, you will need to overhaul the character sheet as well?

CE 1.1 should've had the new order for feats, attributes, and abilities. Take a quick look again at your CE 1.1 game character sheet, Intelligence should point to Research/Hacking and Intimidate should be dictated by Manipulation/Intimidation.

Ok you guys may be right about it being a little overpowered, how would you balance the Inspection and Research feats, they don't have to be the same number, it can be 2/3, 3/2, 2/4 whatever...

I like your suggestion of the whispering sound fx during use, I'm pretty sure I can do that.

No I dont think the character sheet needs an overhaul, I built all of the disciplines off of the current sheet and changing it would literally throw everything off and I'd have to overhaul all of the disciplines again, LAWL. geek
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:40 pm

I think Research is far more useful than Inspection most of the time, so I would it at +2/+4, Research/Inspection respectively.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:07 pm

I would go for +1 / +3 - research / inspection.
I think that more than 1 research is way too powerful for tier 2 discipline. Later in the game 2 research equals a lot of exp.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:38 am

Right now I'm liking a little bit of both of your ideas. I like the the +3 for Inspection but I also like the +2 Research idea.

For now I am going to set it to +2/+3 (Research/Inspection) and play around with that for awhile. I will continue to give it some thought though, I'd like to also hear more opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:16 pm

Status Update: Insight and Shattered Minds are completely finished with full sound and graphical FX. I still need to create a Cast_Emitter for Lingering Malaise then that will be totally done.

Last I need to come up with graphics/sound for Babble and Hysteria I may leave vanilla, after that Dementation should be ready to go.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:14 am

Nice job Zer0Morph. How much research does insight give ?
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:48 am

YamiRaziel wrote:
Nice job Zer0Morph. How much research does insight give ?

Read 2 posts up, I had to double post cuz I had news to give! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:04 pm

Awesome Zer0, this mod is getting better every day, and what the hell, if it doesn't work or imbalances something, there's always hotfixing or 1.3 Very Happy

I hope you continue this great work Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:03 pm

The changes sound really interesting. I wonder how they'll affect the game eventually.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:19 am

Thanks Khannis,

You can only Beta test so much until you eventually HAVE to release it the public and it's usually then where you find your TRUE balancing of the game. I can promise I (we) will try to find as many bugs and imbalances as possible before we release it but I know we can't catch them all, I promise it won't be perfect the first time around.

What I plan on doing after release is playing CE 1.2 myself, testing it, having fun with it and supporting any issues with it as well as answering questions about it here. During that time I will be looking for posts about the good, the bad, and the ugly and will take suggestions on tweaking it, like game balance, bug fixes etc....

After a few weeks of finding bugs and adjusting some of the new changes, I will update CE 1.2 and release a "Fixed" version, probably like CE 1.2.1 or CE 1.2+ something along those lines where it's just tweaks and bug fixes.

At least thats the plan anyways.... Very Happy

Oh and by the way, Lingering Malaise is completely finished and looks sick...
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:53 am

Screens pleaseee Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:27 am

Your wish is my command YamiRaziel, HAHA!

I just finished up Dementation this morning around 5am. I went ahead and posted screenshots in the screenshot thread in the Media Section, but I thought I'd go ahead and repost it here as well since I said I would. So here's the repost and moment you've all been waiting for!!! Hope you likey likey...

VTMB: Camarilla Edition Ver. 1.2 Screenshots Part 3

Thanksgiving is finally over and it's getting cold outside and I'm all bundled up cozy in my computer chair changing the face of bloodlines once again. I'm still unemployed and with the holiday season it appears it is going to stay that way until January which gives me another month to dedicate to this silly game. Either way as long as they don't cut my electricity I should be able to bring you even more fan filled goodies like the one I'm about to show you.

New Disciplines
This next round of screenshots is dedicated to the newly crafted and overhauled Dementation Discipline created specifically for CE 1.2. All but the first tier in the series have been completely changed and balanced. This was done in an effort to rid us of the "Berserk" bug found in the vanilla game where if you use it on a re-spawnable NPC (aka hooker) the NPC would spawn back still under the Berserk AI. The same thing happens when you use Dominate's Possession which is why Dominate was overhauled though I already covered screenies for that.

Dementation proved to be the most difficult of all of the discipline overhauls for no reason other than I just simply ran out of ideas. Discipline creation does not give much room for creativity so I had to be extremely careful not to duplicate the effects given from Dominate, which is basically what Troika did originally. Another thought was how could I make Dementation "Original". I kept seeing the loading screen talk about "Even other damned fear the Malkavians" and so I really took that to heart when creating Dementation. So without further adue let me introduce to you the new Dementation and you can see for yourself why even the other damned FEAR the Malkavians... Muhahaha!

Let's begin with Tier 1: Hysteria which has remained about as vanilla as you can get. I didn't really feel the need to change this discipline as it was already a fantastic one with wonderful animations. I did make very minor tweaks to the durations etc... for game balance reasons but all in all it's the same blood free discipline you remember in CE 1.1.



Here's where we stick our hands in the goodie bag to pull out Tier 2: Insight. This discipline is meant mostly to be used as a utilitarian power meaning it's not combat oriented but does help significantly in other ways. While using this power it will grant your character a temporary +2 to Research and +3 to Inspection for 2 minutes. This will really help Malkavian characters to save on XP by not having to spend it on these feats and can use them elsewhere.



Did I mention when this power is in use you will literally "hear" the voices inside your head whispering to you while you emit a feint purple glow. Also I plan to put random items like watches, rings, etc... in various maps so characters with high Inspection will benefit greater.



Tier 3: Babble is the next power in the set. Like Insight it is not an offensive power however it is a power meant to be used in combat. Babble allows the Malkavian the ability to derange a group of victims dumbbing their minds down to infant levels. The victim's will receive a -5 penalty to all combat feats, defense feats, and even soak feats for a duration up to 30 seconds (depending on the resistance of the victim, humans have no resistance).



In most cases when you hit the target you will do the maximum damage your weapon can and the audio is fantastic, when you fire off this power you hear children laughing, lol, it's so fun!



Where do I even begin with this next power. Tier 4: Shattered Minds is probably the funnest power I've ever created and possibly the funnest power in the game. It basically works as a Mass Hysteria with a twist, while the victims are in a hysterical state they cannot defend themselves whatsoever. As long as they are in hysterics if you or anyone else attacks them the attack does normal damage, however a huge damage bonus will also apply on that attack strong enough to most likely kill the victim outright in one hit.



When you hit the hysterical target a large explosion of dementation fragments go everywhere and they will take your damage.



This shot was taken a second after the first hit, notice the original damage stays along with a huge modifier bonus which was enough to kill this target in one hit. This power also works on supernaturals including the Sheriff. Though it's not quite as effective it is still a sweet power to use.



Tier 5: Lingering Malaise is the most powerful single ranged attack power in the game, even more so than "Still the Mortal Flesh" and "Cauldron of Blood". This single discipline is the reason why the Malkavians are to be feared. This screenshot was used on "Bishop Vick" in the crackhouse to show you how effective it is against supernaturals. It not only drives any victim (including supernaturals) completely insane trapping them in a battle raged against themselves but also does continuous damage until the victim is dead or comes out of it.



Here is a closeup of "Bishop Vick" struggling against this mental war, can you see the little skulls floating up around his body? I forgot to mention that this power is unique in that you can physically attack them while they are struggling and it will not knock them out of it, so while they take damage you can continue damaging them as well. Yes this is a very powerful power which is why it costs 2 blood to use and takes 45 seconds to recharge.



This screenie happened right as the Bishop starting coming out of it. Look at his health afterwards and I didn't even touch him. The sound, the graphics, the effect of this power really makes it something special to use, I'm very proud and excited to present this new Discipline set to everyone!




Ok Vamp freaks! Thats all I've got for now, stayed tuned because Beta Testing will begin in the next week or so for CE 1.2 and after that plan on an early December public release!
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:09 am

Great Lord... Shocked Shocked Shocked I'm speechless. These disciplines are one of the best in my opinion. It's like they scream "Run away, I'm deranged and potentially dangerous" . "This is madness!.... Madness? I...AM MALKAVIAN *the moment you unleash your disciplines* Very Happy
Pure awesomeness. So much better than vanilla's dementation. If Troika could see all the changes you've made so far, they would be proud of you.
I can't believe you are unemployed! For Christ's sake you've managed to fix Bloodlines! I'm even suprised that you are not working for Blizzard, Ubisoft, CD Projekt RED etc. You should definitely apply for job there Laughing

Thank you for your fast reply to my request. Thank you, Zer0Morph.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:35 pm

This sounds like total lunacy.

I like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:52 pm

Awww Raziel man you always know what to say to inspire me!!! I really appreciate the compliments and yes it's been frustrating not being able to get a job in this ho-hum American economy. Every year this country slips further into recession and I'm starting to think my wife and I should move to England lol.

So I take it you guys like the screenshots then? Awesome then I will get to work on randomly putting items in the maps with a steep Inspection feat specifically for Malks (or any high Inspection wielding PC). Also I still need to fix the tutorial with jack because the old one will still talk about Mass Hallucination and it needs to be setup for Insight.

After that I don't see why we can't start Beta Testing. I need to overhaul the Histories for the new Disciplines but that can be done while the guys Beta Test, oh and the game manual is going to be a whore to update with all the new changes, not looking forward to that.

We can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, WOOHOO!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
After that I don't see why we can't start Beta Testing. I need to overhaul the Histories for the new Disciplines but that can be done while the guys Beta Test, oh and the game manual is going to be a whore to update with all the new changes, not looking forward to that.

But aren't whores usually fast, cheap, and easy?

I love all of the updated visual effects for all of the powers, by the way. Absolutely gorgeous.
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:12 am

Hey Thanks lofgren! Ok Ok Then updating the game manual will be much like walking my grandmother across the street, slow and frustrating! flower
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:40 pm

Hey man, I just wanted to say that I appreciate all the hard work you've put into this project. Seeing the Dementantion and Domination differ from each other at last is something I've been really looking forward too.

Have yourself a fat turkey for the good work Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Dementation 1.2 News in Here   Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:13 am

Gobble Gobble! HAHA!

Hey Celsius you are very welcome, I'm glad they differ from each other too. For the longest time it was the "blue" mental powers or the "purple" mental powers, now it's Domination or Dementation, heh.
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