Gangrel should be feared

Go for it. Most Camarilla believe the Baali are extinct or simply boogeymen as an extension of Sabbt brutality and a common sort of monster to look down upon.

Lower level attempts to discern clan from the blood of a Baali will return similar vitae with an odd tang, such as a tremere would expect when smpling nother Tremere from another 'House'

Zer0Morph wrote:

I took this idea to heart and have been brainstorming an idea that if the Baali so chooses, maybe we should give him the option (with a high Persuasion of course) the "chance" to attempt to Masquerade himself as a Tremere to gain access to the chantry haven, and pose as a Tremere student.

Does anyone else like this idea?

Totally for it.

So that Tremere student should learn some Thaumaturgy... Maybe a side quest? But wait, with Blood Heal and Blood Buff there are already 5 Disciplines. Whats the Discipline number limit? I mean due to VtMB engine, I know in PnP you could learn as many you want ( given tutor, persistance and a bunch of centuries )

Exactly 8people, that's what I was thinking too!

Feral,

That is actually another wonderful idea! But I have good news/bad news. The GOOD news is that the limit of disciplines due to the engine is 6 so we're good to go there. The bad news is that Thaumaturgy was discarded for Thanatosis, so Thaumaturgy literally does not exist in TFN. Actually nor does Protean, Animalism, Dementation, or Domination. Man you got me all pumped about this idea until I realized it couldn't be done.

I did get an idea spinned off of your idea. A side quest that allows you to learn a 6th discipline. It could be a different discipline for each clan, and probably something that is not a clan specific discipline, like Celerity, Potence, Fortitude, or Obfuscate. We would need to create a new NPC voiced by our esteemed voice actor "Scarecrow". This would take a CRAP-LOAD of time so I'm not thinking seriously about this until we get the first public release out.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Feral,

That is actually another wonderful idea! But I have good news/bad news. The GOOD news is that the limit of disciplines due to the engine is 6 so we're good to go there. The bad news is that Thaumaturgy was discarded for Thanatosis, so Thaumaturgy literally does not exist in TFN. Actually nor does Protean, Animalism, Dementation, or Domination. Man you got me all pumped about this idea until I realized it couldn't be done.

Aww shit

Edit: On a second thought why not create another path of Thaumaturgy? Do you recall our conversation on this topic on CE forum, long time ago? The one that ended with The Philosopher proposing to make VtM Tremere Edition?

Zer0Morph wrote:

I did get an idea spinned off of your idea. A side quest that allows you to learn a 6th discipline. It could be a different discipline for each clan, and probably something that is not a clan specific discipline, like Celerity, Potence, Fortitude, or Obfuscate. We would need to create a new NPC voiced by our esteemed voice actor "Scarecrow". This would take a CRAP-LOAD of time so I'm not thinking seriously about this until we get the first public release out.

That is a good idea! I think I would go for Fortitude or Potence, they get... handy, sometimes...

Feral wrote:

Aww shit

Edit: On a second thought why not create another path of Thaumaturgy? Do you recall our conversation on this topic on CE forum, long time ago? The one that ended with The Philosopher proposing to make VtM Tremere Edition?

I can't, it would require me to use another discipline. If I could make another path of Thaumaturgy then I might as well make Thaumaturgy itself. A discipline is a discipline regardless of what it's call or what it does. I'm sorry…

You know, it WOULD be possible to create an old Kindred neither loyal the Camarilla -OR- The Sabbat. This old Kindred has been around so long that he/she has mastered Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude and thus would teach you a 6th discipline of your choice from those 3. Of course he would have you run some crazy errands, fights some crazy enemies, and pay large sum of money to do this. And I would think it would be fun to have this opened to the player during Downtown so player can actually enjoy the 6th discipline throughout the game, instead of making it only possible right at the very end.

zer0morph, i see your point.

for a while Wits was only good for deffence, so it made sense that a low level warform would give you a bonus to it.
but since in CE1.4 Wits has been reassigned to Hacking as well, while Dodge remains a purely deffensive skill, it makes sense that a warform would give bonus to Dodge instead of Wits.

though Wits does make a certain sense. you do get heightened senses, like heat vision, so an increase in Wits seems to follow from that.

but in that logic so does Dodge, if you are better able to perceive danger through heightened senses it follows that you are better able to avoid it by Dodge-ing it.

oh i do wish that Childe of Malkav would peep...


remaining on topic, could indeed someone enlighten me, which is the Gangrel History that comes with a bonus to Intimidation?

Zer0Morph wrote:

You know, it WOULD be possible to create an old Kindred neither loyal the Camarilla -OR- The Sabbat. This old Kindred has been around so long that he/she has mastered Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude and thus would teach you a 6th discipline of your choice from those 3. Of course he would have you run some crazy errands, fights some crazy enemies, and pay large sum of money to do this. And I would think it would be fun to have this opened to the player during Downtown so player can actually enjoy the 6th discipline throughout the game, instead of making it only possible right at the very end.

If one were to do this, would there be restrictions to the extra discipline? After all it's not the characters natural traits so would it require more EXP to raise it or would it have a cap at a lower level? Or since the discipline is something of a 'general' one would it simply be an extra, assuming it was somehow instinctual to the vampire just needed a little pushing..?

Zer0Morph wrote:

Feral wrote:

Aww shit

Edit: On a second thought why not create another path of Thaumaturgy? Do you recall our conversation on this topic on CE forum, long time ago? The one that ended with The Philosopher proposing to make VtM Tremere Edition?

I can't, it would require me to use another discipline. If I could make another path of Thaumaturgy then I might as well make Thaumaturgy itself. A discipline is a discipline regardless of what it's call or what it does. I'm sorry…

You know, it WOULD be possible to create an old Kindred neither loyal the Camarilla -OR- The Sabbat. This old Kindred has been around so long that he/she has mastered Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude and thus would teach you a 6th discipline of your choice from those 3. Of course he would have you run some crazy errands, fights some crazy enemies, and pay large sum of money to do this. And I would think it would be fun to have this opened to the player during Downtown so player can actually enjoy the 6th discipline throughout the game, instead of making it only possible right at the very end.

Why not to use another discipline then?
Anyways this idea with a true Elder, maybe even Mathusaleh is awesome! But he should be suspicious (contuties of paranoia due to Revolt, Sabbat, Cam, Inquisition, Tax Office... Well maybe not all of them ), give really hard quests (multi leveled, something like Plauge for The Angels, if possible ) perhaps like retrive an item, gather intel, seek and destroy, etc. And only after (if) you succeded give you your brand new discipline, for a price of course. Adding posibility of the Elder screwing you up if you havent been showing him proper respect might be also nice.

Because all the other discipline slots are used for other clans!

[quote="Zer0Morph"]

Feral wrote:

Of course he would have you run some crazy errands, fights some crazy enemies, and pay large sum of money to do this.

And blood-bond you in the process of teaching.

Feral wrote:

Why not to use another discipline then?

I guess I didn't explain this very well, my fault. New disciplines cannot be created in Bloodlines, they can only be replaced. All of the TFN disciplines are replacements and I've already used up all of the available disciplines for TFN, I can't create anymore. So I would have to erase a current discipline to make Thaumaturgy, a Thaumaturgy path, or any other discipline, that's why we can't do this idea.

The whole Vampiric Elder teaching you a 6th discipline COULD work however, as long as it's one of the current TFN disciplines. It couldn't be Dominate, Dementation, Protean, Animalism, or Thaumaturgy... and I would prefer it to be a "Basic" discipline like Fortitude, Potence, or Celerity, and not a "Specialize" discipline.

Well, that is still a very good idea. Maybe apart from that Blood Bonding suggested by Jad. Unless it would fluently go on to a discreet ( we don't want to upset Sebastian, do we? ) diablerie of said elder. Though I feel that such an attempt may end with the player being a spatter on the wall... Now where that idea came from? I should not drink more Malkavians

My point was, that to learn a discipline, you have to partake of the teachers blood (if I am not mistaken). Thus, creating a blood bond.

In the PnP game it's not required to drink the blood of your tutor (although he may very well lie and tell you it's necessary, hehe). However, after you diablerize someone, you may be able to learn one of their clan disciplines without a tutor, since you have subsumed (consumed and absorbed) a bit of their abilities -- their soul.

Of course, this is assuming you had a higher willpower than your victim, and didn't get absorbed yourself. If not, then your victim is walking around in your skin, with nobody the wiser. This is why Diablerie never struck me as a really great idea. If somebody is powerful enough (i.e. of lower generation) to make Diablerie worthwhile, then they are probably too strong for your (younger/weaker/higher generation) mind to digest. To assume otherwise is betting against the odds. Good luck with that. I'll be over here, trying to raise my stats the hard (but safe) way.