Havens for Nosferatu and Tremere

I think these two clans, especially the Nos get their new Haven rather late in the game.

I'd like to get some opinions on this from people, who have played more frequently with them. Personally I never tried a Nos and have played a Tremere only once, twice if you count the beta-testing of the new Domination and how it works in combination with Thaumaturgy.

If you Blood Wizards and Sewer Rats do think on the same line, I have some ideas how to get a second Strauss quest in Downton, or making the Nos haven an old hideout of Bertram, and getting a job for him done before you meet Gary. So there would be a good chance for everybody to get a new haven before going to the museum.

Tell me what you think about this topic.

-

Would be nice since the Tremere only get the haven in the end of Holywood quests and Nosferatu is even worst, after Fu Syndicate quest.

For both would help some earlier quest, but try using a Nosfie,Childe, it's as funny as a Malk hehe, but their haven is quite depressing >> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dkcmd4&s=5 this is one part of the room, I couldn't manage to get the other.

I would very much like to have a Nos haven earlier in the game.

Although honestly I'm not sure if I'll ever play as a Nosferatu again. It's so boring running around in those sewers, and always being at full blood because you have no fear of feeding.

But yeah, it is quite irritating going all the way back to Santa Monica just to check your e-mail.

(In fact, it's quite irritating in real life as well, although I'd prefer if you could hook me up with something in Bel-Air or Westwood.)

lofgren wrote:

I would very much like to have a Nos haven earlier in the game.

Although honestly I'm not sure if I'll ever play as a Nosferatu again. It's so boring running around in those sewers, and always being at full blood because you have no fear of feeding.

That's why I never waste any xp on seduction. It's much more fun hunting your next meal than just going into the Asylum and getting the blood from two Blooddolls for free.

lofgren wrote:

But yeah, it is quite irritating going all the way back to Santa Monica just to check your e-mail.

(In fact, it's quite irritating in real life as well, although I'd prefer if you could hook me up with something in Bel-Air or Westwood.)

Sorry no can do. At least not in real life. How about a nice sunny spot in Seattle on top of the Needle for your vampire

-

Childe of Malkav wrote:

That's why I never waste any xp on seduction. It's much more fun hunting your next meal than just going into the Asylum and getting the blood from two Blooddolls for free.

Precisely. It's part of what makes the Camarilla mod so much fun, too. "Hmm, Just finished a long cut scene I've already seen three or four times… Oh well, time to feed!"

Hi,

Now after the college mostly works, i've made a little job that gives every clan a bit of cash and the Nosferatu the opportunity to get the new haven at about the same time as the other clans.
It's not fully tested yet, but I don't think there will be many problems. (Though you never know with computers involved )

For Tremere, I think I'll leave it as it is now.

But on another thing I'd like to hear your opinons: What about giving some of the other clans a choice between the Skyline or the Sewer haven Downtown. I was mostly thinking of Malks and Gangrel, perhaps also Brujah. Certainly not Toreador, Trmere, or Ventrue.

-

Generally the Nosferatu aren't in the sewers by choice

If a character chose to reside in the sewers they would have to deal with more difficult social interaction - sewers stink and that doesn't disappear just because you stepped out onto the street. It get stuck in your clothes, hair, skin.

More than likely your apartment in the skyline building is under observation, bugged and close enough to the Venture Building that Lacroix can watch when you leave and arrive - the cabbie is outside his building after all.

Offering the place as a reward when it most likely allows Lacroix an advantage is a common ploy in the camarilla. Make an inevitable action seem like a pleasant choice with reward. The prince benefits and the kindred thinks more highly of him as a result. It's mercenary.

The thing with Tremere and Nos haven is that they are able to get them because Nos and Tremere are a very "clanic clan" ; they stick together.
Of course, Toreador, Ventrue, Malkavian, Gangrel and Brujah can help another one of them, but they stab each other on the back more easily and frequently. (well, Tremere do stab themselves in the back too, but nobody knows about it)

I understand what and why you want to allow certain clans to chose between havens, but you must remember not to fall into stereotypes ; it's not cuz I'm a fuckin' Bruj' that I aint gonna live the big life in a nicy-nice apartment Downtown, yo !
And I do know many many "dirty" Ventrues who wouldn't mind living in the sewers... And Tremere have rituals way more disgusting than those livings conditions

I really do wish Tremere got their Haven imediately after the Plague quest (and Nosferatu might get theirs at the end of the King's Way but that is another subject.)
It's a bit unfair that the other clans get their upgraded haven in Downtown during the Downtown quests, and Tremere only get theirs in the Hollywood quests.
Plus, even while playing with Tremere I do not necessarily intend to side with Strauss and the Camarilla - though i do not also necessarily intend to side with the Anarchs as well.
I have read in a walkthrough that you might get to keep your Haven if you betray Straus AFTER getting the Haven.
Anyway, purely for XP sake I fully intend to betray Strauss to Isaac, say to Isaac that Straus did create the Gargoyle (and to set myself against Strauss, for role-play purposes my favorite ending is Lone Wolf, I want to set myself against all factions).
It would be highly agravating to loose my Haven imediately after winning it.
So, if loosing the Haven is the price to pay for betraying Strauss to Isaac, I do wish i got a chance to enjoy it before I lost it.
Since the Plague quest is already a quest that i do for the Tremere, why not get the Haven imediately after it? Then until i could enjoy a Haven in Downtown while doing the Downtown quests, if only to loose it during the Hollywood quests when I betray Strauss.
The Plague could be the quest that allows me to get the Haven, and the Gargoyle the quest that tests whether I get to keep it or loose it.

some things i discovered:
if completing the regent's riddle you go to the tremere chantry, and then while exploring it you pick the book Thaumaturgical Creatures, then when you pick the quest Gargoyle Removal Service, if you go check your quest log, it will appear the information that you have since picked that book there and so it might be worth your while to go speak to Strauss. That is the only point of the book. If you never read walkthroughs and play only by collecting everything and checking the quest log, that is the only way you will find out that it is worth it to go there. but it is not a requirement.
For example, forgive me for rambling, while playing the Dead Ex quest, when i went to ground zero to learn that i had to go behind fast bucks i checked on the computer Ginger Swan, and after speaking with the guy behind Fast Buck i checked the Quest Log and basically i learned that i had learned where Ginger Swan was, and therefore the tape, before i learned about Ginger Swan, so i played again, i only saw the JosefK computer to learn about going behind Fast Buck, and only then went to the Hollywood Celebrities computer to check Ginger Swan and only then did the quest log update and did i learn that i had to go to the cemetery.
intrestingly enough, when i went to the chantry after getting the Gargoyle Quest but without having before pickied the book, the quest log didn't update but i still got the chance to discuss the quest with Isaac AND i still got the haven.
but as i was playing as a Tremere, i did not get the chance to tell Isaac that the Gargoyle was Strauss's creation.
i did get the chance to convince the gargoyle to side with isaac, and then when talking with strauss i said that the gargoyle was dealt with and strauss gave me the chantry.
as a side note, for any clan other than tremere, the way to do the gargoyle removal service to get maximum benefits is this:
1- on first going to the tremere chantry to complete the regent's riddle, do pick the book, to get the information that you should go to the tremere chantry on your quest log when you get the quest, even if for quest purposes it is not strictly necessary.
2- speak to isaac, asking what else is there to do, after completing the dead ex quest, to actually get the quest
3- as the quest log suggests, do go to strauss, who will give you a talisman to help you fight the gargoyle, though hopefully you will not need it.
4- do have enough persuasion to convince the gargoyle to side with isaac, for 3xp, though you get the same amount if you kill her
5- go to strauss to report that the gargoyle is dealt with. get 500$
6- go to isaac to tell him that you got the gargoyle to ally with him; you have to go to isaac because often if not always you have to, after you finished the quest, go back to the person who gave you the quest in the first place, to report and thus complete the quest.
7- tell isaac that strauss created the gargoyle for further 2 xp
(i don't remeber if you get xp for telling isaac that you got the gargoyle to ally with you, i think not, though often you get final xp when you are doing the final report and thus completing the quest).

if you are a tremere, it is not strictly necessary to pick the book at the chantry, the option remains open if you don't, but the order is, after isaac giving you the quest you have to go to strauss before going to the gargoyle, and you have to go first to strauss after the gargoyle before going to isaac to complete the quest. strauss will give you 500$ AND the haven, but it will block the chance to tell isaac that strauss created the gargoyle.

by the way, you might need a lot of persuasion to convince the Gargoyle to side with isaac if you are a Tremere, during the dialog it makes very plain that of all the kindred, those it hates the most are the Tremere. for role playing consistency you should probably go ahead and kill it, or you have to swallow your clan pride.
the thing is, like i said previously, i want to aim for the lone wolf ending, and i want to betray everybody, and playing a tremere as i should, i am affraid that it will force me to choose as an ending, when the endgame begins, to side with strauss and the camarilla. that is why i decided to convince the gargoyle to ally with isaace as he asked and not to destroy it as strauss asked. as i said before, the game allows such double dealing, you say to strauss that the gargoyle is dealt with and he gives you the haven, provided you went to him imediatelt after the gargoyle and before going to isaac to complete the quest.