Modern Cappadocians plus the Lamia (and the fan made Morbus Lamia antitribu)

What do you all think of these two documents detailing modern day Cappadocians? For me, I really, really love them and want to incorporate them into my own version of WoD. To be honest, I heavily prefer them over the Giovanni because they are far more deep and interesting. I would like to keep the Giovanni, however, mainly just to use them as a sort of juxtaposition of the Cappadocians and other Kindred as really depraved, sick Kindred (even as Kindred), but being kept around for being useful with monetary things and for other Kindred to point at them and say "you could have been one of them".

My main point of consternation is with the Morbus and the Lamia. The Lamia seem like an obvious fit for the Sabbat, yet I doubt the Sabbat would be too keen with their Lilith worship. With the Morbus, you clearly wouldn't be able to have them in any faction with the Lamia, which is fine by me. Their clan/bloodline weakness also makes it pretty clear that they would need to be around corpses and/or dying people so they'd be able to feed properly. The Sabbat would seemingly be the easiest of the sects for them to be a part of, but they could just as easily be Independent or part of the Camarilla (think of a guy who would work in a sanatorium, morgue, hospital or hospice service).

I was thinking about having the Cappadocians (the clan-proper) being a largely independent clan, but generally working with the Camarilla and respecting the Masquerade. They would have either the Morbus or Lamia. The Cappadocian antitribu, led by Lazarus, would have the Morbus or Lamia as well as working with the Harbingers of Skulls (the followers of Lazarus would be those who disagreed with the Feast of Folly and would have been those who rejected the Giovannis' induction into the Clan and the Harbingers would be just as they are, but instead of working against the Giovanni, they'd be working against the main Cappadocians).

How does the Giovanni play into this? They'd still be there, although extremely limited in what they can do and with extremely low numbers. They'd basically be the monetary arm of Clan Cappadocian, watching over their investments and things like that. They'd be severely limited in what they can do because of the bloodline's attacks against the clan in nights past.

So, what would you all suggest?

Toreador wrote:

What do you all think of these two documents detailing modern day Cappadocians?

What documents?

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/ModernCappadocians.pdf

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/Modern_Cappadocian_Clan_Primer.pdf

These two

Dragatus wrote:

Toreador wrote:

What do you all think of these two documents detailing modern day Cappadocians?

What documents?

My question exactly.

As for the matter at hand: nice, but I have a soft spot for the Giovanni. I wouldn't like them to go to the sidelines. No, I am not a Capuchin...

Shit- sorry, I thought text I'd linked them in my post but I forgot to, it seems.

There are Harbingers of Skulls. The Lamia antitribu are just lame. Lameia.

Jad.3 wrote:

There are Harbingers of Skulls. The Lamia antitribu are just lame. Lameia.

This.

Lamia and Gangrel "bloodlines" are just useless. Why invent teh fancy when the same tool with different ideologies work perfectly fine ?

Yeah.... What bloodlines are we talking about? 'Cause I looove Noiad. My two favourite disaciplines in one package, plus third to help me score some sheep!

Some of us genuinely love the bloodlines. They're just a cool addition to an already amazing world. I don't know how else to explain. It has nothing to do with being 'speshul' or anything. They just add more flavour to the world. However, I'm not fond of how Requiem just spews out random bloodlines in almost every sourcebook. The Masquerade bloodlines actually have a lot more depth to them.

Yeah, the Sabbat has Harbingers of Skulls, but why couldn't some of the survivors of the Giovanni pogrom of main clan Cappadocian actually want to go Sabbat? The ones who defected to the Sabbat (I wouldn't actually make them a bloodline; they'd just be Sabbat Cappadocians) could be those who were in fierce opposition to the Feast of Folly and the main Clan's decision to keep some of the Giovannis still around when they believed they should have been destroyed.

What is so lame about the Morbus? It's a very reasonable idea that males embraced into the bloodline would get quite pissed off at being treated like second class people and so would defect from the main bloodline and join a group that actually appreciated them. Seriously, what is so hard about that? Is it because they would be an all male bloodline?

Feast of Folly seems like something Camarilla would do.
So those who survived would more likely turn Sabbat. If they did not turn Samedi. Or there were such a thing like Sabbat at the time. Weak, I know. Most likely they would just follow their own agenda.

To be honest, Lamia seems lame by it original self. Fighter / Mage never works as well as the pure class They only embraced women - it was just practical; and they were the proverbial witches of the dark ages. And the witches be no more. They must have been the first to fall. When you get in trouble, you chuck them at it, run and don't turn back no more. Did I say they only embraced women?

Jad.3 wrote:

Did I say they only embraced women?

Maybe they had a special clan discipline that allowed them to do the dishes, clean the house and make snarky remarks about other women clothes with more speed and efficiency

Jad.3 wrote:

Feast of Folly seems like something Camarilla would do.
So those who survived would more likely turn Sabbat. If they did not turn Samedi. Or there were such a thing like Sabbat at the time. Weak, I know. Most likely they would just follow their own agenda.

But it wasn't the Camarilla though. It was Cappadocious himself who did it and, Kindred like Apacia, were really against it.

Quote :

To be honest, Lamia seems lame by it original self. Fighter / Mage never works as well as the pure class :)They only embraced women - it was just practical; and they were the proverbial witches of the dark ages. And the witches be no more. They must have been the first to fall. When you get in trouble, you chuck them at it, run and don't turn back no more. Did I say they only embraced women?

I like them; I thought they were one of those bloodlines that got cut short and not left to be developed any further. Also, in V20, it says the line is predominantly female, so there are male members of it. I'm glad they did too- it's just bloody ridiculous to have a several bloodlines directed at one gender and many of them have been retconned to disregard that crap.

Clans/Bloodlines with mostly or all female members:
Daughters of Cacophony- there were once male members, but for some reasons, in pre-V20, they were all purged from the bloodline

Lhiannans- in the original Dark Ages book, they were described as being very matriarchal, which was a complete historical error because their nickname 'Druids' referred to a priestly caste of the British, Irish and Gauls who were almost completely made up of males.

Lamia- in the Dark Ages books, they were described as almost exclusively female and are still so in V20 (which could be okay with me because of the Lilith Cult).

Ahrimanes- all African and Native American females

Toreador- in the Dark Ages Guide to the High Clans, the Toreador are referred to as being mostly women

All Male or mostly male Clans/Bloodlines:

0

Where do anti antedilluvian licks turn I wonder.

Well, if you make a bloodline that's female only, you're emancipated. If you make a bloodline that's male only, you're misogynistic.

Jad.3 wrote:

Well, if you make a bloodline that's female only, you're emancipated. If you make a bloodline that's male only, you're misogynistic.

Yeah, and it's totally fucked up, no?

Toreador wrote:

Jad.3 wrote:

Well, if you make a bloodline that's female only, you're emancipated. If you make a bloodline that's male only, you're misogynistic.

Yeah, and it's totally fucked up, no?

It is. Like the world we live in...
That's why we have WoD; to have some saner world to take a break to from time to time.

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Jad.3 wrote:

Did I say they only embraced women?

Maybe they had a special clan discipline that allowed them to do the dishes, clean the house and make snarky remarks about other women clothes with more speed and efficiency

Yep. It's a combination of celerity and telekinesis. It allows them to throw supersonic flying saucers at their enemies from vast distances.

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Feral wrote:

Toreador wrote:

Jad.3 wrote:

Well, if you make a bloodline that's female only, you're emancipated. If you make a bloodline that's male only, you're misogynistic.

Yeah, and it's totally fucked up, no?

It is. Like the world we live in...
That's why we have WoD; to have some saner world to take a break to from time to time.

If WoD is saner than our world, then that must be the greatest irony I've read today   (Assuming you weren't joking by saying any of that).

I remember trying to bring the issue of the disproportionately large number of female-only or female-dominated organisations on other forums and people actually would get very offended of baffled at why I would bring it up. When I suggested that for one fantasy setting that we could have an all-male priestly order or something, a few of the members were completely against it, saying things like "fight discrimination with more discrimination" yet they weren't willing to give up their precious all women priestesses, and these were MEN saying it.

Ahh Toreador. You have started to grasp the stupidity of the politicaly correct masses. Good, good. Soon your enlightnement shall be achieved.

I'm very politically INcorrect

Toreador wrote:

I'm very politically INcorrect

Then you're on the right forum here.  
Most of us can see that "politcal correctness" is only a convenient way to hide one's prejudices...

Calling someone a "skin pigment priviledged citizen with migratoric background" certainly sounds better than caling him a "black man".  

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

Toreador wrote:

I'm very politically INcorrect

Then you're on the right forum here.  
Most of us can see that "politcal correctness" is only a convenient way to hide one's prejudices...

Calling someone a "skin pigment priviledged citizen with migratoric background" certainly sounds better than caling him a "black man".  

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We must call them "roma citizens". Currently we're trying to arrange for each european representative to adopt one family.

Jad.3 wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Toreador wrote:

I'm very politically INcorrect

Then you're on the right forum here.  
Most of us can see that "politcal correctness" is only a convenient way to hide one's prejudices...

Calling someone a "skin pigment priviledged citizen with migratoric background" certainly sounds better than caling him a "black man".  

-  

We must call them "roma citizens". Currently we're trying to arrange for each european representative to adopt one family.

I am totally for it! And make the Roma go to Brussels! They will enjoy living there I am sure.
Not to mention a bit of contact with real world would be very good for the eurocrats... Like stolen wallet/car/watch and broken nose from time to time...
*gets dreamy*

@Toreador: I wasn't joking. I was more on a life of a PhD student, but our fellow Cainites here are right; in politics/media/economy it is even worse.