Character creation

What do you think of this idea for character creation?
In the creation screen:
-attributes: 1/1/0 (all starting with 1 dot)
-abilities: 2/2/1 (starting with 0)
-disciplines: 2 (starting at 0)
-humanity starts at 4, can't be raised at this point (Toreador at 5?)
-history gives +1 in 2 feats or +2 in one

Then watch (or skip) the intro

At the beginning of the tutorial a creation dialog for 15 free points. Cost:
-attributes 4 (8 for 3rd dot)
-abilities 3 (6 for 3rd dot, allow even a 4th?)
-clan disciplines 5 (10 for 3rd dot)
-new discipline (only one) 7
-humanity 1
-starting money (0 - 500$) 1 per 100$

There is one problem with this. I'd have to make City Gangrel a clan, or predefine the bonus feats for the City Gangrel history.

I am happy with this. Well thought out.

I think Disciplines starting at 0 are great idea.
Torries with Humanity 5 work for me. Sabbat ones should start at 3 then, but that is a different story...

I would not allow 4th dots in creation. Too much temptation for minmaxers as me.

Feral wrote:

I am happy with this. Well thought out.

I think Disciplines starting at 0 are great idea.
Torries with Humanity 5 work for me. Sabbat ones should start at 3 then, but that is a different story...

Well, since the bloodlines character isn't aligned with a faction when s/he is sired, such a distinction is not necessary. But on a principal basis you are probably right.

Quote :

I would not allow 4th dots in creation. Too much temptation for minmaxers as me.

The temptation would be dampened somewhat by the fact that a 4th dot would cost 9 creation points. So raising one ability to four would cost all 15 free points and leave you with only two points in disciplines, humanity 4, and no starting money...

But I think you're right, and I probably won't allow a 3rd dot in disciplines either.

No 4th dot in general and no 3rd dot for disciplines are good ideas.

I don't mind having the bonus feats for a City Gangrel predefined. I'd rather do that than have a new clan. Stealth & Dodge perhaps? Those would go hand in hand with the substitute disciplines.

Dragatus wrote:

No 4th dot in general and no 3rd dot for disciplines are good ideas.

I don't mind having the bonus feats for a City Gangrel predefined. I'd rather do that than have a new clan. Stealth & Dodge perhaps? Those would go hand in hand with the substitute disciplines.

Dodge ok. But why would I learn stealth when I have Obfuscate?
My first thought was the intrusion related feats: lockpicking and perhaps hacking. But now you mention it, I think dodge is better.

I know Obfuscate makes Stealth irrelevant, but they fit together thematically.

Thinking about it, I like that. 12 freebies allow you to get even with the original creation system if I can count correctly, so, approved

Jad.3 wrote:

Thinking about it, I like that. 12 freebies allow you to get even with the original creation system if I can count correctly, so, approved

Seems like you can't count.
2 discipline points (10) + ability (3) + attribute (4) + humanity (2) + 100$ starting money (1) = 20
But on the other hand, there is a bonus from the histories, and freebies can be distributed as you like, even for a new discipline, and you don't have to spend points for a clan discipline you don't want to use...

-attributes: 1/1/0 - 4 freebies required to get to the original amount
-abilities: 2/2/1 - 3 freebies
-disciplines: 2  - 5 freebies
-------------------------------
12 freebies to get to the vanilla amount of dots.

-attributes: 1/1/0 - 4 freebies required to get to the original amount right
-abilities: 2/2/1 - 3 freebies right
-disciplines: 2  - 5 freebies vanilla gives 4 discipline dots, so 10 freebies
-humanity: vanilla starts with 7, CE and TFN with 6, uLA with 4: 2 or 3 freebies
-starting money: 1 freeby to get the usual 100$
-------------------------------
12 20 or 21 freebies to get to the vanilla amount of dots.

Oops.

I know, I'm horrible. I change my mind more frequently than some people change their underwear...

Currently I'm trying this method:
-select your clan, gender, and history (only stat swappers, except for Malks, see below).
-select your attributes (2/1/0) and abilities (3/2/1), but not the disciplines.

watch or skip the intro

creation dialog, 31 choices, -4 if you set an attribute to 3 dots in the creation screen, (another) -3 if you set an ability to 3. (that's what you need for vanilla stats)
-humanity: cost 1, up to 10
-starting money 0-500$, cost 1 per 100$
-attributes: cost 4 up to 2, primary attributes up to 3 for 8 points
-abilities: cost 3up to 2, primary abilities up to 3 for 6 points
-clan disciplines: cost 5 up to 2
-learn 1 new discipline, cost 7, 1 dot only

Difference for Malkavians:
If you don't select a history, your ability choices are reduced to 2 knowledges, 1 skill, 1 talent.
Selecting a history restores the ability choices, but gives a weakness according to your kind of madness.

Any ideas for madness effects?

So basically you and Jack are deciding your stats and stuff, through his dialogue option at the beginning?

Childe of Malkav wrote:

I know, I'm horrible. I change my mind more frequently than some people change their underwear...

As a Malkavian, it's your job description.

Zer0Morph wrote:

So basically you and Jack are deciding your stats and stuff, through his dialogue option at the beginning?

The creation dialogue starts before Jack atm, right after the fade-in.

@Malk: Seems like a good idea to go for 3 dot at the beginning; it's cheaper. That an intention?
Madness effects... How much can you affect the feeding process? I'd definitely do something blood related, like only feed from men/women, or chance of frenzy during feeding,... Scared of guns (can't use + frenzy chance when under fire)... I like to frenzy
I think it was discussed, sumthin' about the Great Prank, to have Dominate instead of Dementation, with or without the typical madness-text in dialogues.

Jad.3 wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

I know, I'm horrible. I change my mind more frequently than some people change their underwear...

As a Malkavian, it's your job description.

If you say so...

Jad.3 wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

So basically you and Jack are deciding your stats and stuff, through his dialogue option at the beginning?

The creation dialogue starts before Jack atm, right after the fade-in.

Right, Jack isn't involved. He is a scheming bastard, but he has to keep his manipulating fingers out of my character creation!

Jad.3 wrote:

@Malk: Seems like a good idea to go for 3 dot at the beginning; it's cheaper. That an intention?

It's not cheaper. If you take the 3rd dot you get less free points.

Quote :

Madness effects... How much can you affect the feeding process? I'd definitely do something blood related, like only feed from men/women, or chance of frenzy during feeding,... Scared of guns (can't use + frenzy chance when under fire)... I like to frenzy
I think it was discussed, sumthin' about the Great Prank, to have Dominate instead of Dementation, with or without the typical madness-text in dialogues.

Yea, feeding and frenzy. Doing things there were my first thoughts, too.

For dominate, that's possible, but getting rid of the special dialog for only one history is more effort than it's worth. So here the penalty would be:Instead of dementation, you can use dominte, but not in dialog.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

31 choices, -4 if you set an attribute to 3 dots in the creation screen, (another) -3 if you set an ability to 3.
...primary attributes up to 3 for 8 points
...primary abilities up to 3 for 6 points

What do I miss?

You get 31 free points if you don't set any attribute or ability to 3 dots in the creation screen.
If you set an ability to 3, you only get 28 free points, if you set an attribute to 3, you get 27 free points, and if you set both, an attribute and an ability to 3 dots, you ohnly get 24 free points.

And in the creation dialog, you can set attributes and abilities to 3, but only the primary ones for your clan/history.

The calculation is quiote simple:

15 points: in Vanilla, all disciplines start with 1 dot
+ 5 points: one discipline choice in vanilla
+ 1 point : 100$ starting money in vanilla
+ 3 points: humanity
+ 3 points if you don't set an ability to 3 in the creation screen
+ 4 points if you don't set an attribute to 3 in the screen
---
31 points

This means you can create a character who looks exactly like one you created in vanilla, but you have more choices.
And I strongly advise to buy at least 2 or 3 points in humanity at the start, because with the new system, humanity loss is faster than regain, and buying with xp is really expensive.

Looks alright to me.