A little something I noticed

When the followers of Set get replaced by Warriors of Set in TFN 1.4, every single playble "clan" is actually going to be a bloodline.

Or to paraphrase it: The final Nights mod is putting the bloodlines into Bloodlines.

I never actually thought of it... You are right. So, Bloodlines through and through. Maybe we should rename it to VtMB:Bloodlines Edition?

Vampire: Real Bloodlines

Explain further please? Aren't the clans in vtmb bloodlines?

Cretino wrote:

Explain further please? Aren't the clans in vtmb bloodlines?

I'm not sure what you mean. The clans in vanilla Bloodlines are clans. The "clans" in TFN are all bloodlines of main clans (or bloodlines of bloodlines).

Assamite Vizier is an Assamite bloodline. Baali is a Salubri bloodline. Warrior of Set is a bloodline of the Followers of Set. Ishtarri is a Toreador bloodline. Osebo is a Brujah bloodline. Salubri used to be a clan, but they've been reduced in number to the point where they're considered just a bloodline (I suppose you could say they are now a Tremere bloodline ). And finally the Samedi are a bloodline of either the Cappadocians or the Giovanni, depending on which origin story is actually true.

Well, you could also say Tremere are a mixed Salubri/Tzimisce bloodline.
And for the question if the Samedi are Cappadocian or Giovanni. What does it matter? The Giovanni basically are Cappadocians with a bit of Pizza mixed in.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Well, you could also say Tremere are a mixed Salubri/Tzimisce bloodline.
And for the question if the Samedi are Cappadocian or Giovanni. What does it matter? The Giovanni basically are Cappadocians with a bit of Pizza mixed in.

I read somewhere the Samedi may be an offshot of Salubri, either directly or through the Nagaraja...

Nagaraja are a Salubri bloodline? Really?

Dragatus wrote:

Nagaraja are a Salubri bloodline? Really?

Yup. The Mages of Euthanathos Order of SE Asia wanted to experiment with immortality and f*cked it way more than the Tremere... As they also used Salubri blood, Nagaraja would be an artifical bloodline of the Salubri, just as the Tremere are of the Tzimisce...

Salubri truly is one fucked up clan.

Dragatus wrote:

Salubri truly is one fucked up clan.

Said a Tremere...

Are you surprised? The Tremere clan has been saying that since the Dark Ages.

Dragatus wrote:

Are you surprised? The Tremere clan has been saying that since the Dark Ages.

I hate the Tremere. Bloody diablerists...

Zer0Morph wrote:

Dragatus wrote:

Are you surprised? The Tremere clan has been saying that since the Dark Ages.

I hate the Tremere. Bloody diablerists...

And a de facto Salubri Antitribu...
OK, Tzimisce origins and all, but hey, most of them have something of Saulot in them...

Zer0Morph wrote:

Dragatus wrote:

Are you surprised? The Tremere clan has been saying that since the Dark Ages.

I hate the Tremere. Bloody diablerists...

Assamites approved

But what are clans? And what are bloodlines?

Now you're getting into a linguistical debate about what those words mean - and speaking from experience, that will not be fun. (For anybody but linguist nerds, at least.)

To make it simple: from White Wolf's perspective, there are thirteen known clans. Everything else is a Bloodline.

Eliza wrote:

Now you're getting into a linguistical debate about what those words mean - and speaking from experience, that will not be fun.  (For anybody but linguist nerds, at least.)

To make it simple: from White Wolf's perspective, there are thirteen known clans. Everything else is a Bloodline.

Even simpler: Cain was cursed by God and become the first Cainite.

He had therr (or five Childer) Second Generation.

Those had 13 Childer (or more...) Third Generation.

Groups of Cainites descended from one of the 3rd Generation, who share common Disciplines and to a degree traditions and customs, are a Clan

Sub groups within Clans, sharing common Disciplines and to a degree traditions and customs, that are a bit different than a maistream for their Clan, are a Bloodline. Those originate from Cainites of 4th or higher Generation.

In other words, Bloodlines are (or were) subgroups of Clans, or Clans that lost 3rd Generation founder and were thus demoted to a Bloodline (Salubri, Baali). Conversly, a Bloodline may become a Clan if it Diablerizes it's way to having 3rd Generation founder (Tremere, Giovanni).

Great post guys! Those are good explanations of the difference between Clans and Bloodlines. Here's a screenshot taken from the Official TFN Game manual, which may not be cannon to VtM but is canon to TFN.

Feral wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

Dragatus wrote:

Are you surprised? The Tremere clan has been saying that since the Dark Ages.

I hate the Tremere. Bloody diablerists...

And a de facto Salubri Antitribu...
OK, Tzimisce origins and all, but hey, most of them have something of Saulot in them...

Usually the anti-tribu are the smaller group.

Dragatus wrote:

Usually the anti-tribu are the smaller group.

Want zu compere vand sizes, Usurper?
As Philo would have said...

Great post Zer0. I forgot to mention the weakness and set of three disciplines, going only for Clan identity. To think how we could take certain things for granted and obvious...

Magic wands are for amateurs.

Feral wrote:

Great post Zer0. I forgot to mention the weakness and set of three disciplines, going only for Clan identity. To think how we could take certain things for granted and obvious...

Thanks, I took a screenshot of the TFN manual, lots of good information in it. You know, I've been working on this manual since February 2015 and I'm only weeks away from releasing it, I'm so excited!!

Thank you everybody!!!

The manual is looking great! Any chance we can fiddle around with options like font size and background colors?