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The Baali character can only be a fake Tremere if his sire was already masquerading as a Tremere.
If it's the case, the Baali wouldn't even know he's a Baali and not a Tremere... And wouldn't know the baali disciplines (I mean, it's not like your sire could feed you in before getting decapitated).

Alright for salubri Tremere Treats, but it closes the whole good Camarilla ending. I do like how you are turning it up, with Tremere hunters and stuff..


Yes, Tremere hate Salubri and do everything to eliminate them with pure evil reputations..
But how about Strauss as a person ? Wouldn't he like to have a Salubri in his chantry, locked up and trusting him, so he can experiment on his blood or so ? Sure it's against the pyramid, but most Tremere use the pyramid as much as the pyramid uses them Having another supernatural creature at "his service" (and to avoid the salubri telling everybody about the gargoyle) is one hell of a usefull power.

I do not think, however, that a 300yo Regent Tremere would screw up a thaumaturgical test

"I know what you are, work for me and I won't deliver you to a power hungry apprentice..." (of course he will, you know, the fish, the game of chess, etc.)

Claudia wrote:

The Baali character can only be a fake Tremere if his sire was already masquerading as a Tremere.
If it's the case, the Baali wouldn't even know he's a Baali and not a Tremere... And wouldn't know the baali disciplines (I mean, it's not like your sire could feed you in before getting decapitated).

Well, as far as memory serves, affinity for Disciplines runs in the blood... So, for clan ones no teacher is needed. Let's assume that Baali PC doesn't know he is Baali. He thinks he is an honest Tremere (I know, fairly contradictory in terms: honest Tremere). And he starts showing a knack for Obfuscate or Presence. Daimonion needs to be taught, like Thaumaturgy, so no infernal pen-friends Now that would be a dead giveaway. Older Baali know not to boast, but a Neonate... If not for incredible amount of dialouge, that would be a nice storyline. And what an embarassment for Strauss!

Actually, disciplines do run through the blood.. but.. ALL OF THEM do

Clan Members have an easier way to learn their clan disciplines, but there is a merit saying that you can have a 4th "clan discipline". The game system explains it as as a Gangrel, you have all other Gangrels showing you how to transform. It's the fact of being part of the clan (as full membership and recognized as such) that gives you "easier" to learn Protean and Animalism, not because of the "cursed blood". It's the same with clan Flaws. It's copycat and pure suggestion power


That's why Caitiff get and develop any disciples as they do not know what clan they are. But if a Tremere goes and rituals a Caitiff Blood, the Tremere can say "the guy's Gangrel". Even if the said Gangrel has Auspex, Dominate and Presence as "main disciplines", that's the ones his survival needs has developped.


Thaumaturgy, Daimonion, Mortis, Necromancy... Those are exceptions, as these disciplines cannot be appealed by survival needs. There are no "natural disciplines", it's magic (I mean Mage the Awekening magic) twisted and used by Vampires.

I read so much I forgot what I wanted.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Baali) Set it up so that if you had a high enough Charism, Subterfuge, and/or Persuasion, you could masquerade as a Tremere and gain Strauss's trust and even stay at the chantry. You would of course gain xtra XP for doing this and get all the benefits of the quests. Then later on maybe you could even plot Strauss's assassination for xtra power and XP, but I hadn't decided on specifics on how I wanted to handle that.

Why not, sounds like fun.

Feral wrote:

Well, as far as memory serves, affinity for Disciplines runs in the blood... So, for clan ones no teacher is needed. Let's assume that Baali PC doesn't know he is Baali. He thinks he is an honest Tremere (I know, fairly contradictory in terms: honest Tremere). And he starts showing a knack for Obfuscate or Presence. Daimonion needs to be taught, like Thaumaturgy, so no infernal pen-friends Now that would be a dead giveaway. Older Baali know not to boast, but a Neonate... If not for incredible amount of dialouge, that would be a nice storyline. And what an embarassment for Strauss!

Actually, Baali "Embrace" in a different way. Let's say you're Malkavian, insane with power. You sign for the demonic servitude, get thrown dry to a pit full of corpses and tadaaa, you're a Baali. Your Master teaches you Daimoinon and may teach Dark Thaumaturgy. They DON'T Embrace the regular way.
Anyway, Zer0, you said you're changing the intro, right? Guess you have to for this to work...
Another one, manipulating Strauss' demise suits Baali better. Direct confrontation? Nay. But why not tie it up to revealing the world Strauss lost a Gargoyle?

Zer0Morph wrote:

Salubri) Strauss would already know you were Salubri at the beginning of the game, and instead of risking your escape, he would secretly plot your death by not saying a word to anyone about it, especially the Prince. At the beginning of the game, instead of receiving the Regent's Invitation, you would receive a Death Threat telling you to leave the city immediately, and of course you don't/can't, so throughout the game as you progress through, you get randomly attacked by Tremere assassins and if you survive, of course you get XP. This would of course be a whole new plot line for the character exclusive to Salubri. Also the door would remain locked to the Chantry so the Salubri can never go in. Eventually, towards the end of the game, surviving all of the attempts to take you out, you get to fight Strauss as an additional boss battle, along with Ming Xiao, the Sherrif, etc....

So, I like the idea of being hunted by the Tremere so much! Death Threat is stupid, he would just unplug ya, but listen (ehm) to this: the Princes often kept Salubri in their court for their healing power. So lets say that LaCroix kept your Sire there, helped to keep the cover, then just disposed of one more puppet (Nines knows your clan?!?). If you're nice to him, he keeps the secret to groom another healer (till late game?), if you're naughty, he gets word to the streets, bam! Tremere assassins. Also you could be stupid and tell the Regent.

I'm exhausted....

Anybody ever thought of the idea of the Salubri masquerading as a Toreador? In my opinion, it wouldn't be all that difficult, at least not for the PC, since you can easily dismiss the high regard for mortals as Torrie stuff. Both Clans tend to keep in touch with Humanity, one way or another, so I thought it'd fit quite well.

Other than that .. oooh, mouth-watering ideas in here!

Jad.3 wrote:

So, I like the idea of being hunted by the Tremere so much! Death Threat is stupid, he would just unplug ya, but listen (ehm) to this: the Princes often kept Salubri in their court for their healing power. So lets say that LaCroix kept your Sire there, helped to keep the cover, then just disposed of one more puppet (Nines knows your clan?!?). If you're nice to him, he keeps the secret to groom another healer (till late game?), if you're naughty, he gets word to the streets, bam! Tremere assassins. Also you could be stupid and tell the Regent.

I'm exhausted....

Good one. And makes sense.

Eliza's idea shows merit as well. Salubri posing as a Tori! I could hear conversation at a Chantry and see puzzeld look on Max face...!

Actually, a Salubri would Masquerade as.. AS A BRUJAH !
Why ?

Brujah are individualists, so nobody in the clan will ask you anything. Brujah are marginal enough so you don't need to show off at Elyseums (a social salubri is a salubri soon to be dead). Brujah are weird and embraced for so many reasons so a humanist wanting to save everybody from everything is just fine.

I agree, as a Salubri, a Brujah would probably be the one of the safer clan to masquerade as. No one pays them much mind; maybe Malkavians, Nosferatu or Gangrel are more on the periphery of Kindred society, but of those, the Brujah would be the easiest to impersonate. Toreador have much more of a social structure (and usually notoriety) that might lend itself to scrutiny from not only other Toreador but the other clans as well. Masquerading as a Tremere would be difficult and unnecessarily dangerous, considering the Tremere are the only clan with a direct, vested interest in seeing the total annihilation of the Salubri. And I see a Salubri as preferring to avoid notice than to outright deceive, leave that to the Baali.

The Baali do Embrace in the same manner as other clans, but they are also said to be able to convert Kindred from other clans, so there is no definite answer either way.

The decision that needs to be made is whether the Salubri will be known to Strauss (or the Prince) from the outset or whether s/he will be masquerading as another clan.

Ahriman wrote:

The Baali do Embrace in the same manner as other clans, but they are also said to be able to convert Kindred from other clans, so there is no definite answer either way.

The decision that needs to be made is whether the Salubri will be known to Strauss (or the Prince) from the outset or whether s/he will be masquerading as another clan.

Both Baali and Salubri have to hide their true identities. Otherwise, they would go to behedig sequence right after tutoral. Or even during, as I can't imagine Nines intervening on behalf of the demon worshipper.

They could exist only if nobody finds out. Imagine an apprentice of Strauss (Baali...), who boasts to him his newfound knack for controlling demons...

Feral wrote:

Both Baali and Salubri have to hide their true identities. Otherwise, they would go to behedig sequence right after tutoral. Or even during, as I can't imagine Nines intervening on behalf of the demon worshipper.

They could exist only if nobody finds out. Imagine an apprentice of Strauss (Baali...), who boasts to him his newfound knack for controlling demons...

I just assumed this as well, I would think being Salubri or Baali would be a bad thing for either clan during the beheading theme. In the case of the prince, saying that “up until tonight, they have been an upstanding member of this organization”, I highly doubt he would be saying that about a Baali. To make this thing fly, I think we are going to have to assume the identity of the Salubri and Baali PC characters will be unknown. With that decision made, we can start planning the “special” nature of both of those clans and start writing special quests/incidents for these clans.

Or special accidents...

PC: Hi Max, I just found out I'm of Clan Salubri! Could you tell me about my clan? *smiles silly and gives that trusting puppy look*
Max: *trying desperately to hide shock * Uhm, Neonate, lets look into this a litlle closer... Have anyone seen you entering the Chantry?
PC No, why?
Max: Nothing, really, never mind... Now please proceed to the labor.. er, guest room...


And that is, dear children, what we call terminal stupidity.

I like what I'm hearing so far, and vote for a sooner release.

(Must say, was wrong about Baali embrace. My bad.)

Jad.3 wrote:

(Must say, was wrong about Baali embrace. My bad.)

They used the pits from Antiquity to Middle Ages, for Embracing humans. I remember reading of reembracing Kindred in the clanbook, too. But if they want, they could Kiss normally. Wow, I sound Tori... Must be the spring is in the air...

Feral wrote:

... Must be the spring is in the air...

If it is, you should notice by your winter fur comming off

-

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Feral wrote:

... Must be the spring is in the air...

If it is, you should notice by your winter fur comming off

-

Ah, so it was it on my comb! And I thought I was going to get bald!

I must confess, I have learned much that I didnt't knew about these clans before reading this thread. I have played the game so many times and read several books set in the univerese, but much of these clans are mysterious to me. It's really interesting to read your explanations! There will be many more playing this mod who doesnt know all this, so it would be very helpful with some explanations in the game regarding these clans and their need to hide/impersonate. Of course I know there are some facts about the clans in the character creation screen, and in the list of playable clans, but that gave me no idea about the need for a Salubri to be secret about his/her clan. Just an idea!

OuiYepp wrote:

I must confess, I have learned much that I didnt't knew about these clans before reading this thread. I have played the game so many times and read several books set in the univerese, but much of these clans are mysterious to me. It's really interesting to read your explanations! There will be many more playing this mod who doesnt know all this, so it would be very helpful with some explanations in the game regarding these clans and their need to hide/impersonate. Of course I know there are some facts about the clans in the character creation screen, and in the list of playable clans, but that gave me no idea about the need for a Salubri to be secret about his/her clan. Just an idea!

Already got ya covered my friend... When you get to the screen where you normally would choose to answer the questions or go straight to making your character, well the questions have been removed and replaced with the option to read a lengthy 2 page report on the backgrounds of each clan. I felt that the little explanations during character creation wasn't enough, so I added this instead. I also took the information directly from source VTM books so most if not all should be cannon.

3/19/2011 – I hadn't posted with my latest progress for a few days so I thought I'd take the time to tell you guys what I've been up too. First off, I took the day off from work today to stay home and work on TFN. I didn't go anywhere and I've been sitting at my computers since noon until right now, which is 12:15am. I went out for Chinese around 7p but other than that, I've been working. I plan on hitting the sack soon so I can get up tomorrow morning and put another 12 hr day into TFN.

Here's what I've gotten accomplished in the past few days including today.

1.) I got the new sires setup for the introduction for the Assamite male and Salubri female characters. Because I don't have the opposite sex for those clans I made custom ones which will eventually be replaced by the final PC skins I make for 1.1. I already made the Samedi one in 2010 so we were ready to go on that already.
2.) I did a final walkthrough of all of the clubs and made minor adjustments to the volume of the music. The Last Round was WAY too loud so I took care of that and I repositioned the Blood Doll in Confession and gave her animations. Now you can't force feed on her without suffering a Masquerade Violation.
3.) I went through all of the clubs and manually set it so that every NPC you talk too, the volume will automatically drop by 4 points. To do this I had to set it up for every NPC one at a time but it's well worth it. In the loud clubs sometimes it's hard to hear some of the NPCs like Knox and Ash specifically.
4.) I went through all of the CE made blood dolls and readjusted their Seduction values and made them all the same regardless of hub. You will need a Seduction of 10 or a Serpentis of 4 to win them over for all 4 hubs.
5.) I touched up the UI and it looks better than ever now. I made a thread about it with a screenshot in the "Ideas" section, go check it out.

Yes, it took 12 hours today and countless more throughout the week to complete this and I plan on tackling the Male Baali model hard tomorrow. This expansion is looking REALLY good right now! Beta testing here we come!

Quote :

Beta testing here we come!

Thank you for the update.

If you need a beta tester, I am taking a break from my last certification and available.

Sounds great; I'm heartened to see the progress and can't wait to get my hands on the finished product.

Very exciting!

yup, new here, but looking forwards to it

4/4/2011 – TCI Members and Fans,

It's been a few weeks since my last official news update so I thought I'd take the time to post one with the current progress TCI has been making on The Final Nights. A quick few things to discuss so I'll list them in order.

1.) The biggest news is that TFN 1.0 officially goes into Closed Beta Testing this Saturday, April 9th and will conclude on April 23rd. The testing team will comprise of the following people who have graciously given up the following 2 weeks to do their best to find as many bugs as possible. They are the last line of defense against bugs so wish them well.

Beta Testing Roster
ThePhilosopher
Claudia
8People
Feral
Jad.3
*Awaiting Reponse*

2.) The TFN official trailer has begun and is almost complete and ready for release. Technically the video is already done but I’m having problems converting it as some of the frames got corrupted during the compile process. Once I figure out why this is happening it will be posted here, as well as ModDB and Planet-Vampire, along with a “Features” page with some screen shots. It’s just under 2 minutes in length and looks VERY cool, I spent all weekend working on it.

3.) A final release date has not officially been set, however assuming I can fix the trailer and get it released, it should be set sometime this week. Right now we are looking at a late April to early May release depending on the schedule. The trailer was supposed to be done last night so it’s delay is holding things up for me. Don’t worry, I’m putting every ounce of free time into getting it fixed and published.

4.) It’s been confirmed that the Female Baali character did NOT make the cut for final release. I simply did not have enough time to put the work and professionalism that she deserves into her model. Good news is that the Male Baali is 100% finished and looks amazingly sick! I still need to post pictures in the gallery and will get around to that asap, however this takes a back seat to the trailer right now.

5.) Poor Burgermeister, I promised him some skinning if he made a rotating loading screen script and he fulfilled his end of the bargain. I skinned one of his CQM characters and a second as well but he wanted some modifications done on it and I haven’t had time to do them. *Note to self “Burgermeister’s skins need to be completed ASAP!!”

6.) I began putting a lot more work into getting our ModDB page ready for release. We’re beginning to gather a strong following there so it’s important that I stay on top of that site. I’ve really let it slide over the past 6 months because updating the TCI site is hard enough while making a mod. Now that production is coming to a screeching halt, I have a little more time to juggle 2 sites. I think having the official trailer on the front page of our site will get some attention, I can’t wait!

That’s all I have for now, hope you enjoyed the update!

All this is Good News! Really awesome Good News! 19 days are long if you're waiting, but it feels a little bit good that the closet beta testers are stepping in all the worst bear traps instead of me. I feel bad for poor Jad.3 who have to do it 3 times as much though.