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 The Haggle Question

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kyoden
Methuselah
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PostSubject: The Haggle Question   Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:55 pm

Hmm,

I know Zer0 and Childe have different ways of seeing how Haggle should affect the game.

I'm not yet sold on Zer0's way. Even though I have a rather high haggle skill of 6, I feel short of money. I have around thousand bucks (which is not that shabby), but didn't buy a single book yet (poor Jimmy Reed).

Besides Presence 3 (Baali) I have 0 combat skills (Melee 0, Firearms 1, all Physicals at 1) I manage to win every fight till now. I had to reload a couple of times during the fights though. Abit annoying overall.

My proposal would be to up the whole NPC damage abit. Making the game more of a challenge for combat monkeys. Reduce "haggle" requirements a bit (aka give more money to haggle chars), but make cool items accessible in shops. I would love to see a flamethrower in the shop, but way too expensive to afford, unless my character is build to buy it. Money characters would be a choice then, rather than a neccesity if you would want to buy anything at all.
(especially after Silvia Black wants a shit load of money).

I really think this would add to the game (more options in character building) in terms of replayability.

Discuss Razz


Last edited by kyoden on Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:09 pm

Sounds reasonable to me.
Shouldn't make the enemies TOO hard however as it may scare off some people if they can't kill some crackhead to avenge to ever-mighty Mercurio without five points in Strength.
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:42 pm

You don't get it.
Money is a scare resource ! It's normal. You go and try and find 500 bucks.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:50 pm

Vampires and supernatural beeings are normal too Smile
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:33 pm

Claudia wrote:
You don't get it.
Money is a scare resource ! It's normal. You go and try and find 500 bucks.
That depends on how much you already have. Look at our recently resigned Bundespresident. If you have enough money, you will always find a friend to borrow you another million for a new house....

But in normal life, you don't have to find 500 bucks for a book on computers, so you can solve some stupid quest about werewolf blood.

And where I don't see eye on eye with Zer0, isn't in making haggling more interesting as such. I just believe, he has overdone it a bit, making it too important, instead of just making it more valuable for the avearge player.

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:45 pm

I'm actually playing my first run through of TFN EVER and I started last night. I want to quell this Haggle debate once and for all. While I'm at it I'm going to check to see if guns REALLY ARE overpowered.

Right now I'm playing a Assamite Vizier on the Path of Knowledge. He started the game with a Haggle of 1 and since then I've raised him to a level 3 (just recently). I started the game w/ $50 and gave the $250 back to Mercurio to get the experience. I did however complete the Rendezvous quest gaining me $200 and I intimidated the SM_Blue Blood (the guy waiting for the tow truck) and got his super nice watch. Then I intimidated Malcolm to give me another $150 to keep quiet about his divorce. I also conned Copper into giving me $225 for the "Unicorn Blood" and another $100 for the "Holy Stake".

All in all, I've had enough money to buy 1 low grade book and 300 rounds of Saturday Night Special ammo. I have not been short on money and I did not start with a high Haggle.

I just don't see how you guys are saying Haggle is absolutely necessary or overpowered. I probably won't raise my Haggle over 4 or 5 yet I'll have the money to do most things. If Kyoden has $1000 before leaving SM then he has the money to buy 2 low grade books which is 4-6 worth of free experience.

If I didn't need the money for extra ammo I probably would never raise my Haggle above 3 and I'd be fine. I'll let you guys know how my run through goes but so far I'm just not seeing the complaint.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:21 pm

My point is not only about making Haggle important, but to add new options. So far I can only spend money on books (which need research at high levels too). I know I get free xp, but maybe I don't want free xp Razz

I want options. Variability (even more). Money could be used to bribe people. Like pay 100 to get access to rooms at the hotel or whatnot. Again, running around with a flamethower, and so on could be fun as well.

I'm not saying it is unbalanced. But as it goes, I have a character with alot of disadvantages. I can't sneak, lockpick, haggle at 6, computer at 5(after book now), research at 4 (had to raise it to read the first book). I just cant go nowhere (exeggeration) as I don't have the requirements. My points went in Inspection, Haggle and Intimidation and I'm having a hard time cause every situation is very problematic. I now had to buy Obfuscate 2 (which I didn't want to), but after reloading about 30 times at the dane and ragequitting, I had enough. I'm playing a money character, but its doing me no good. I want to have options with my money now!
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:07 pm

If you think Haggle is only good for buying books and ammo then you're missing a huge part of the game. Read this post on how Haggle works and what it can do for you. I've added numerous opportunities to spend your money on bribery for gathering information, cheaply feeding on hookers, blackmail, etc...

http://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/t565-the-haggle-system

Having a high Haggle allows you to do a shit load of new things. In most cases where you can use Intimidation, Persuasion, or Seduction, then Haggle is also now another viable option. Read this topic, it explains everything.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:14 pm

To be honest, I haven't found any of those "other" opportunities so far. Maybe their requirement is too high. I have haggle 7 by now, which I think is awesomely high.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:22 pm

kyoden wrote:
To be honest, I haven't found any of those "other" opportunities so far. Maybe their requirement is too high. I have haggle 7 by now, which I think is awesomely high.

7 Haggle is REALLLLLY high! You're like the Undead Rockefeller. To use the bribery options you only need a Haggle of 1, it's available for ALL characters whether you invest in Haggle or not. It's just that you'll pay more for information and bribing someone will cost more. Also the price you pay to feed on hookers depends on your Haggle feat. I believe you can get the price all the way down to $5 with a Haggle 9 or 10. In other words it's almost free to feed on hookers with a high Haggle.

If you look at the Haggle post I linked you too, I have it broken down in an excel spreadsheet all the things that Haggle affects.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:28 pm

Is it possible to make the haggle/bribe options in a certain color/font? It might sound obsolete, but I think its cool for a player to feel that the environment and its options change due to his character sheet and options taken.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:42 pm

I don't know if it's even possible. I do know that you can change the font color for existing special conditions like persuasion, seduction... But I don't know if you can define new special conditions with color options. And even if you can, the special condition allows only for one threshold, and haggling usually requires a whole list of differnt lines. So while it's still possible (if you can define a color for haggling), it will make the whole affair even more error-prone. DLG scripting is fiddly enough as it is, with no decent dialog file editor around.

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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:47 pm

Hmm, an easy solution would be to make $ signs infront and behind the text line, but that isn't as cool. Hmm, hmm Smile
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:43 pm

($) looks a bit better than $ when you actually put it into dialogue. It makes it clear that the dollar sign isn't part of the dialogue itself.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: The Haggle Question   Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:35 pm

We'd have to use <$> or perhaps $$$ Normal brackets are used for interpreter commands like (Auto-End)

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