Sabbat edition

This is a collection of ideas I’ve had floating around for a while about creating a Sabbat version of the game. While I know this isn’t STRICTLY speaking the right place for my musing I’d love to have the input from such a great community who know the game so well. Any and all ideas are welcome, especially those surround the practical, technical areas of such modding as I have no experience in it whatsoever. I am very much just an ideas man!


Overview
Based on the current Camarilla edition (no the irony there has not escaped me!)
Want a real Sabbat feel to the game, more than just the introduction of Sabbat clans/antitribu into the existing game.

Missions
A breakdown of necessary changes to each mission.

Opening-
• Lose opening intro. Wouldn’t make sense.
• Tutorial; need whole new character to serve as Jack. New dialogue. See ‘mentor’ below. Explain as Sabbat recruitment mission? Would need to lose cutscene, or at least change it so you get hit by Cammy troops.
Santa Monica (main)-
• Wherefore art thou Mercurio? Change via email to suggest Mercurio is Sabbat ghoul.
• Surfs up. Same
• Explosive beginning. Have mentor explain Nossie vagueness with regards to Camarilla vs Antitribu to justify why Tung might help you. Have warehouse as Ventrue venture with gangs rather than Sabbat. Replace vamps inside with Cammy vamps.
• Tourette missions- All same
Santa Monica (side)-
• Bloody mess. Same, just rewrite email to have it as a snack for someone!
• Bounty for the hunter. Same
• Carnival of death/ Jumping the bail/ Mudd hunt. Same but maybe change dialogue at ending? Reward for recruitment into Sabbat?
• Missing data and other Tung errands. Same
• Replanting a Lily. Same
• Spiritual release. Same
• Hunter Hunted. Same
• Pain of being Mercurio. Same
• Heather. Same, though possibly once she's your ghoul more aggressive dialogue options only?
• Regents Riddle. Remove
• Thinned blood. Same
• Malcolm’s affair- Same
• Head Vampire. Same
Downtown (main)-
Lose intro cutscene. Need reason to go see Anarchs, but not sure what yet...
• Major rewrite. Have mentor tell you after Tourette missions to go Hallowbrook. This serves as equivalent to Tower. New NPC iside (see Sabbat leader below) to serve as LaCroix type. Gives missions. Same as LaCroix but pushing possibility of Antedeluvian inside.
• Elizabethan Rendezvous. No bonus for being sneaky? Go in and tear the place up!
• Calling Dr. Grout. Same
• The epic of the Ankharan Sarcophagus. See Going the way of Kings. Otherwise the same
Downtown (side)-
• A confession/ And her name was Venus/ Venucide. Same
• A plague for the Angels / Fun with Pestilence. Rogue faction? Imply Baali cult in sabbat you are must exterminate? Mission itself the same more or less. Lose Strauss element.
• Attention whore. Same in execution but need to change reason for mission. Not upholding masquerade.
• Necromantic. Same
• Occultish personality. Same
• Traffik. Same
• Akeem errands. Same, but maybe can give him other books too? eg. The Encyclopaedia Vampirica or whatever it’s called in the Society of Leopold’s fortress.
Hollywood (main)-
Need justification to deal with Issac. Basically the same but more tense/aggressive?
• Dead ex- Same
• Snuff is enough- Same
• Going the way of Kings- Need to justify why attacking Andrei. Email/mentor explaining he’s gone rogue? Baali cultist? Could cross with Bishop Vick plaguebearers? Conspiracy and factions and stuff? Keep Sabbat version from becoming an all out blood bath, retain World of Darkness shadowiness?
Hollywood (side)-
• A dish best served cold. Rewrite email to be a Toreador venture. Otherwise same. Maybe add option to poison Flayton?
• A tangled web. Same but rewrite emails to have Mitnick to emphasise Gary’s anger at LaCroix, thus justifying him helping Sabbat and the lockdown. Also emphasise how the business are different Camarilla holdings.
• B-rated writer/ Hotter stripper assassin action. Same but again, need some reason to approach VV in first place/ why Camarilla Toreador will deal with Sabbat.
• Cover girl. Same
• Gargoyle removal service. Same but without Strauss, Amulet of not-getting-your-arse-kicked (I forget real name) will have to be relocated.
• Hunters Hunting. Same, but maybe tweak dialogue to be more aggressive to ‘weak Cammy’ who needs help.
• I spy Barbarus. Same but with tweaked dialogue to be more aggressive to ‘weak Cammy’ who needs help, or maybe mentor/leader dialogue to justify why helping Nossies.
• Model Citizen. Same
• Pimpin’ for Romero/ You only die once a night. Same
• Posters. Same
• Spotted by Samantha. Same. Maybe more points for more aggressive conclusion...
Chinatown (main)-
See no real reason to change relationship with Mao.
• Kikinapped. Same but dialogue more aggressive to those in need.
• Original gangster/ Dragon’s tail/ Come into my parlour. All Same
• Italian dinner. Same
Chinatown (side)-
• Bad luck farmer/ Eye gouge hell. Same
• Gone Fishin’. Same
• Hitman impasse. Same
End Quests-
• Society for the preservation of Professors. Same, but maybe without cut scene of LaCroic and Beckett trying to opening it would need to set it up though dialogue.
• Hell at the hotel Hallowbrook. Seeing as this is the new tower this would have to be skipped entirely. Maybe reintroduced as an ending?
• Enemy of my enemy. Same but serious dialogue tweaking needed to get rid of references to blood hunt etc. Would need to create a reason for Nines to be out here anyway.
• Out for blood. Same in game play but mentor picks you up at the park to take you back to the haven and explains about you having pissed off the Camarilla enough for them to be out in force for you (maybe they set up Nines as punishment for helping the Sabbat and you saving him has set them off after you too?).
• Ming must die. Same
• LaCroix must die. Same but without dialogue obviously. Have to kill him as well as Sheriff.
Notes on endings-
Could include Kue Jin ending easy enough. Anarch ending possible with a little modification to dialogue. Sabbat ending easiest of course. Independent would mean writing Archbishop as traitorous, same as LaCroix. Could reintroduce Hallowbrook as a fight with him at the end rather than Andrei? Maybe reintroduce Andrei or Mentor as true Sabbat where Archbishop is out for himself ala Strauss and the Camarilla? A lot more work as opposed to just having Archbishop as the Sabbat ending and no Independent one.

Clans
• Tzimisce. Start looking normal but punky, heavy body modification. No idea for a clan weakness, clan strength immune to humanity? Thaumaturgy, Auspex, Vicissitude (war form of progressive extremeness and benefits, final form huge crazy fucking monster!)
• Lasombra. Venture but more aristocratic and less businessey. Avoid ALL black clothes; too on the nose! Clan weakness- same as Followers of Set, clan strength, start with point in presence. Dominate, Potence, Obtenebration (1. Shadow play, +3 initimidate, +3 stealth effect similar to auspex but black and on player character rather than subject. 2. Shroud of night, trap victim so they cannot move and very slowly cause damage. Effect just black smokey effect around victim who is stunned. 3. Arms of the abyss, 2 thrashing tentacles of black that auto cause damage to those who come near (thrash randomly as opposed to moving specifically for simplicities sake. 4. Tenebrous form, become a small patch of shadow similar to the new shadow monster that comes from slashing paintings, cannot be harmed nor cause harm or use items, move faster. 5. Darkness within, vomit effect but black, creates massive damage on all in a short arc in front)
• Gangrel. Antitribu. Slightly more aggressive skins and history names. Otherwise the same.
• Brujah. Antitribu. Slightly more aggressive skins and history names. Otherwise the same.
• Malkavian. Antitribu. Slightly more aggressive skins and history names. Otherwise the same.
• Tremere. Antitribu. Slightly more aggressive skins and history names. Otherwise the same.
• Nosferatu. Antitribu. Slightly more aggressive skins and history names. Otherwise the same.

Humanity
Possibly the easiest thing to do is rename it inhumanity and change the things you get + and – for? Still making killing bad or it’d be too easy, at the very least no rewards for it!

Masquerade
Needs serious rethinking and rewrite. Just saying need to keep a low profile so follow it is not Sabbaty enough to my mind. Want to keep it feeling Sabbaty. Maybe just means you don’t lose if you get it low? Just have to keep dealing with hunters and cops? What would you call it then? Open to all and any ideas in these two areas.

Diablerie
To keep with a genuinely Sabbat feel, it should be included yes, but very limited and not easy. Maybe fight major NPCs using the clan mod stats? Also, should get specific upgrades based on who you eat, not just tons of XP. eg
VV= +2 Subterfuge, +2 Charisma and 6XP
LaCroix= +2 Persuasion, +2 Haggle
Akeem= +4 Melee, +4 Unarmed
Really makes it personal then. No introduced new Disciplines though, seems a little over powered.
Only available after certain point in game to prevent breaking.

New NPCs
Both serve to make game work practically and to add a genuine Sabbat tone. Also serve as the typical “Tell me about X” characters from a new point of view. No particular thoughts yet to actual physical looks, Clan, gender etc though it would make sense to makes at least 1 Lasombra seeing as they are utterly unrepresented in all other versions of the game.
Mentor
Takes on many of the same roles as Jack. Early contact for missions usually given by Camarilla characters, writer of early emails. Give justification for dealing with many Camarilla/Anarch characters (see above). Drive early plot.
Archbishop
Same role as LaCroix. Gives bigger/later missions. Main plot driver. Rival of Andrei? Traitorous as LaCroix is? Undecided yet so ideas welcome.

To do
Basic list of major tasks in making this mod.
• Lasombra and Tzimisce skins, disciplines, histories etc.
• Edit and tweak NPC dialogue throughout to avoid Camarilla references (“Sabbat chase you in here Cammy?” etc) and “Kindred” where it should be “Cainite” and things like this.
• Edit player dialogue options to be more Sabbat referenced and Sabbaty in tone ie. more aggressive.
• Rewrite emails
• Hallowbrook as an Elysium style place. Entrance and exit etc.
• Create mentor character, dialogue with him, record voice, lip synch, skin, “tell me about X” talk etc.
• Create Archbishop, as above but also make him a combat character if necessary.


As I said at the start, this is just a collection of ideas that I’d love to have other’s input on. I also have NO modding experience so I’d love some advice on the logistics of such an undertaking.

Get about ten people on full time salary for five years. Including programmers, dialog scripters, voice actors, and artists for the models and skins. And have fun.

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You've really thought hard on this.

I really like the idea and concept, but sadly Malkav makes a pretty clear point in his post.

Still, if it is in any way possible I'd love to have the option.

As I see it, the majority of the work is just tweaking and using existing material so though time consuming it's far from impossible.
Only the new clans and NPCs are totally from scratch and that has been done very well with the Final nights mod and the Clan mod so while this is certainly a bigger project I don't see why it's beyond the realms of possibility.
Of course, as I've said, I am not a programmer so I'd really value the input of the stalwarts of this site.

From a technical standpoint what you’re asking is not impossible. The biggest problem I see is trying to cut up sound files of the current NPCs to match what you are trying to say for the new lines. If you want this 100% professional you may need to find new voice actors to re-speak all of the lines of certain major NPCs, so you can add new lines that match the voice throughout their entire dialogue. For example take LaCroix, if you scrapped all of his sound files and had someone else re-record his lines, now you have total freedom to re-write his lines without fear of voice differences.

The fact that you don’t want to introduce new maps cuts down on a lot of headaches. I do see new cut scene camera movements being somewhat problematic. They can be done, but I’ve never done it and as far as I know neither has Childe of Malkav. We would be getting into new territory with cut scenes.

All in all, yes I agree this could be done, but with A LOT of time, dedication, and money! If you wanted this done within an acceptable time frame, you would need people working on it full time, meaning they would have to quit their real jobs and that’s when the bills start piling up.

Ain't a "Sabbat version" the aim of "Antitribu Mod"?

http://www.moddb.com/mods/bloodlines-antitribu

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Ain't a "Sabbat version" the aim of "Antitribu Mod"?

http://www.moddb.com/mods/bloodlines-antitribu

Different execution than what was described though, and Clan Quest also have the option of joining the Sabbat if I recall.

Zer0Morph wrote:

From a technical standpoint what you’re asking is not impossible. The biggest problem I see is trying to cut up sound files of the current NPCs to match what you are trying to say for the new lines.

From a simplicity point of view I was thinking merely editing the existing sound files rather than record anything new.
For example, where Damsel says "Sabbat chase you in here Cammmy", remove it and just have her say "hey" or some other non-committal phrase she already has. When someone has an explicitly Camarilla thing to say about you, just chop and change it to be suitable. The original recording would be the new NPCs and that I already have people signed up for, once I actually write the damn dialogue.

Zer0Morph wrote:

I do see new cut scene camera movements being somewhat problematic. They can be done, but I’ve never done it and as far as I know neither has Childe of Malkav. We would be getting into new territory with cut scenes.

Losing cut scenes is hardly game breaking, everything done there can be done with a little expositional dialogue If it'd that much of a head ache to edit/create them I can just chuck em!

jrc_burgess wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

I do see new cut scene camera movements being somewhat problematic. They can be done, but I’ve never done it and as far as I know neither has Childe of Malkav. We would be getting into new territory with cut scenes.

Losing cut scenes is hardly game breaking, everything done there can be done with a little expositional dialogue If it'd that much of a head ache to edit/create them I can just chuck em!

In most cases I would agree but there are some occasions where dialog just doesn't work.
For example the scene where Nines saves you from the Sabbat would look horrendously lame and half-arsed if he didn't shoot them but only had the text "*Gets shot in the head by mysterious sexyman*"

Karavolos wrote:

In most cases I would agree but there are some occasions where dialog just doesn't work.
For example the scene where Nines saves you from the Sabbat would look horrendously lame and half-arsed if he didn't shoot them but only had the text "*Gets shot in the head by mysterious sexyman*"

I think you misunderstood my intention slightly. As my original notes said I think, I believe that cut scene would have to go entirely, it just doesn't fit with the plot as I have slightly reimagined it. By adding dialogue I mean lose the whole cut scene and have dialogue with one of the new NPCs on arriving downtown which performs the same role ie. introducing the Anarchs and giving reason to interact with them from a Sabbat point of view.

If it's that easy, why don't you just do it?

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

If it's that easy, why don't you just do it?

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I intend to, I was asking for some input and suggestions from those with more experience than me. I was hoping for some guidance and advice and constructive criticism. I know it's a huge project and I know it's far from easy, but I also think it's possible with a little help.

If you ever succeed then let me know, would love to try it out

Karavolos wrote:

If you ever succeed then let me know, would love to try it out

Might be a while

Would it be possible to implement daytime to this game and make it so that the vampires would sparkle under its effects? I mean, we should aim to be as realistic as we can.

It would also be really cool if one of the disciplines let me read other character's minds. They wouldn't have to be voiced; they could just have some scripted lines.

MY EYES!!! THEY BURN!!! WHYY

Perhaps add a baseball mini-game?

Zer0, are u trolling?

Prepare the Pyre! Where is my stake?

THE BLOODHUNT IS CALLED!

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

Prepare the Pyre! Where is my stake?

THE BLOODHUNT IS CALLED!

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Yeah!!!

*closes in for the kill and Diablerie*
*gets distracted by a squirell*

Not that bloody squirrel again. Dennis should have fucked it a long time ago...

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Edward Cullen wrote:

Would it be possible to implement daytime to this game and make it so that the vampires would sparkle under its effects? I mean, we should aim to be as realistic as we can.

It would also be really cool if one of the disciplines let me read other character's minds. They wouldn't have to be voiced; they could just have some scripted lines.

Back in ancient Rome we used to crucify people for lesser offences than this.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Not that bloody squirrel again. Dennis should have fucked it a long time ago...

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Dennis...?

Dragatus wrote:

Edward Cullen wrote:

Would it be possible to implement daytime to this game and make it so that the vampires would sparkle under its effects? I mean, we should aim to be as realistic as we can.

It would also be really cool if one of the disciplines let me read other character's minds. They wouldn't have to be voiced; they could just have some scripted lines.

Back in ancient Rome we used to crucify people for lesser offences than this.

No, that is totally wrong and barbaric! How dare you suggest enything the likes of this!?

Toss him to wild animal(s). Me...

Sorry for double post but I got this idea after a while after hiting send...

Feral wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Not that bloody squirrel again. Dennis should have fucked it a long time ago...

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Dennis...?

Drug dealer on the beach