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 World of Darkness MMO

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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:27 pm

Bastards. I expected to awake from my torpor with the goddamn game finished already.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:31 pm

Give it a decade.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:08 pm

Another decade in torpor. Then you can watch Avengers 2, 3, and 4 in order. Of course, you'll have to buy the new X-ray DVD player, which takes the new 2 cm. discs. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:54 pm

Dragatus wrote:
Give it a decade.
And when they're finally ready, they will announce it with the phrase: "Come and See". And behold, there will be the fourth horseman riding a pale horse...

- geek

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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:10 pm

Dragatus wrote:
So there's no real new information, they just confirmed that they're still working on it.

A bit more than that really. Building the toolset is half the battle. If they really do have the construction tools in place, then development from this point on should go relatively quickly. The devil will be in the details.

"Sandbox" games are problematic at the best of times. I expect it to evolve into a 'theme park' type game like SWG did if they try to stay that route. Players just plain need direction. The ruleset is of course another huge issue. There's simply not enough dots on a P&P character sheet to hold an MMO player's attention for long.

So that means a new skill and discipline system, most likely with character levels - like it or not, it's what's expected. You can only change so much or the player will be alienated from the start and leave unless you've got something really, really special to keep them hooked.

Gear will be interesting - that's one way to keep character progress going. You have to provide a path for infinite growth, even if you "cap" it, players need to know that the cap will be raised with the next content release/expansion or some other point down the line. Clothes didn't really do much in Bloodlines. Magical clothes, talismans, earrings, and such could make their way in.

And my personal question: will there be player housing? That's what kept me hooked in EQII for years and helped keep me in SWG. Havens are such a part of the game it would be a real shame if they don't do something special here. I don't expect there would ever be 'sunlight' - so permanight, kind of like SW:TOR is permaday.

So I'm actually pretty stoked by this news bounce bounce

Edit: MMO competition is cut throat, I would say this game's primary competition and potential player base is The Secret World, which recently went Free to Play. It's an interesting game, very story driven. A lot of similarities really - secret societies, mortals with varying degrees of knowledge of your world, etc...
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:09 am

Jad.3 wrote:
mouser9169 wrote:
I do hope they've ditched going with the old rules though. That would mean they've pretty much given up on their flagship product, and it kills any future compatibility with werewolf and mage players, not to mention the built in 'ceiling' that generations places on the players.
I think someone of WW mentioned that new WoD was a mistake; so let's hope they haven't. Wink

Well, for me it was nice. I could never figure the rules out to the 'classic' system. NWoD made everything much more streamlined and easy to follow. Character creation was a nightmare to figure out from the books in the originals, at least for me. And you still had plenty of options - not as many clans or cabals maybe, and saying good bye to my beloved Malk's. But you gotta take some bad with the good.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:45 am

Why not have nWoD rules and system with oWoD clans and lore?
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:28 am

This is just a suggestion, but does anyone want to open a new topic on the World of Darkness MMO, but simply for speculation, ideas on disciplines, how they can implement things (Havens, Lore, Clubs, Clothing, Bloodlines, Cities for playing in), forging alliances and stuff? This thread seems more filled out for info on the MMO. Only if others wish to.


Last edited by SaulottheGentle on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Had to add in Bloodlines and Cities)
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:38 am

https://picasaweb.google.com/104768265135219212499/WorldOfDarkness?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIn2icC12NbHPA&feat=directlink#


They've opened speculation and discussion topics on PV : http://planet-vampire.net/forum/index.php?board=2.0
Many are interesting but yeah, NWoD system is far more reliable and well made than the oWoD. But the OWoD has an interesting soul ^^
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:34 pm

mouser9169 wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
mouser9169 wrote:
I do hope they've ditched going with the old rules though. That would mean they've pretty much given up on their flagship product, and it kills any future compatibility with werewolf and mage players, not to mention the built in 'ceiling' that generations places on the players.
I think someone of WW mentioned that new WoD was a mistake; so let's hope they haven't. Wink

Well, for me it was nice. I could never figure the rules out to the 'classic' system. NWoD made everything much more streamlined and easy to follow. Character creation was a nightmare to figure out from the books in the originals, at least for me. And you still had plenty of options - not as many clans or cabals maybe, and saying good bye to my beloved Malk's. But you gotta take some bad with the good.

Donning hipster glasses and a T-shirt that reads, "Ask me about my 50th level Paladin/Monk", along with a French beret and a Russian cigarette for effect, even though I don't smoke.

Bah!! You youngsters and your streamlined rules and your emo clans. Back in my day, character creation was an adventure, a quest not to be undertaken by the weak and timid. We considered it a challenge to find rules that even the storyteller/dungeonmaster had never heard of -- rules that were buried in an obscure corner of the 1st edition rules, or in some game supplement bought by only five people in your country. Rules that gave your character the maximum advantage, with a weakness guaranteed never to occur during actual gameplay -- but that you had to roleplay constantly, to show how cool your character was, and how good a player you were for choosing that history.

I weep blood-tears for the future of gaming.

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Why not have nWoD rules and system with oWoD clans and lore?

Taking off hipster gear and tossing it in the trash, now that the old-guy rant is over:
I have a feeling that Claudia is doing exactly that, in her game. Which is fine with me -- I don't care about the system, as long as the story is good.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:40 pm

Lul PGM.

I'm not fully using the nWoD gaming system, if I had I would have asked you to fill in a nWoD sheet. I am going along with adapting the rules and taking them upon myself so you guys only remember what is logical and doable by the characters, so players only need to say what they're doing or trying to do ^^

edit :
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/27/eve-fanfest-world-of-darkness-target-footage-shows-hunting-parties-and-parkour/

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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:26 pm

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
You'll have to buy the new X-ray DVD player, which takes the new 2 cm. discs.

*facepalm*

Wouldn't it be a X-ray player then? (like you got DVD players and Blue-ray players, there is no such thing as a Blue-ray DVD-CD player XD)

And they're apparently going to release an edited version of the presentation with a few EF2013 attendees exclusives edited out. Ho well.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:54 pm

Quote :
“We’ve banned the names Edward and Bella and you can’t make your vampire sparkle,” McDonough joked, crushing the dreams of a million Twilight fans.

That's a good start. Very Happy

Quote :
Players in World of Darkness start out mortal, but will be quickly tuned. Or so CCP expect. There will be players who try to last as long as they can in human form. Initially, it won’t be a fully fleshed out way to exist.

Interesting. So I'll have to make a bloody hummie afterall.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:57 pm


Quote :
Players in World of Darkness start out mortal, but will be quickly tuned. Or so CCP expect. There will be players who try to last as long as they can in human form. Initially, it won’t be a fully fleshed out way to exist.

Hmmm.....

How very, NWoDish....


@hipster dude Laughing I played Red Box, Space Opera, Gamma World, Boot Hill, The 'Original' Starship Troopers, along with Starfleet Battles and 'big box' games - even The Longest Day (wish I still had that one), some Star Trek RPG, BESM, 1.0, 3.0, 3.5, (2nd edition can go suck itself - and I won't mention what I thought of 4th), Playtesting 5th, tried VtM and Mage, then NWoD and WoD d20 and a bunch of others I can't remember.

Classic WoD was, from this DM/GM/Storyteller's POV, the most unclear of all of them - and obviously deliberately so: Rules tucked in the middle of long rambling stories, references to things that didn't seem to be there (nWoD has this to an extent as well).


Back to why I think they should use NWoD rules: two main things - maybe there's a way to make these happen with the classic rules, but I don't see an easy way to do it: First, the ability to later have expansions that add werewolves and mages (or other things Still to Come(tm) - Hunters on a PvP server would be very interesting) into the mix without one being terrible OP or UP compared to the others, and 2nd, the no ceiling on character growth by using 'blood potency' instead of 'generation'.

With the 'generation' system, once you diablerize Caine, what's left? How do you get stronger than generation one? It would have to be a constant gear acquisition game at that point - or else learning more and more cross class disciplines, but even that would run out. Another nice, or at least interesting, thing about blood potency, if they keep to 'the rules', is that the increased power comes with drawbacks - first you can't feed on rats, and eventually not even humans for sustenance - you need to feed on vamps: interesting for both PvP and PvE servers - you'll need NPC Kindred in either case.

The little mechanical things I don't see a problem with for either system, it's the big picture ones that become much more imporant in an MMO - where people will be playing the equivalent of a 'chronicle' every day for five years and still expect to be able to become stronger at the end of it.

The main MMO competition for this game will be The Secret World (which if they can't beat that they should pack it in now...). That has three 'secret societies' (unless they've added more), and everyone starts out like Spider Man - swallowing a radioactive bee. It could be very interesting if they do go the human route and eventually give the players paths to choose that lead to becoming a vampire, or a mage, or a werewolf.

The attributes/skills/disciplines lend themselves very well to a three 'talent tree' system that would be familiar to most players and sill stay pretty close to the P&P rules: it would look different but functionally be pretty much the same. Athough WoW finally ditched their talent trees... makes me sad I was going to return to play with my wife, and I always enjoyed experimenting with different 'builds' - same as in D2.

As to sunlight - maybe they could have it if it was an event that lasted no more than a minute every 2-4 hours. If you got hit with it, it would be like any other 'death' - respawn at your haven or wherever the respawn points are, maybe get 'rez sickness' for a bit, and get back in the game.

Much speculation - I suppose I should go over to the PV boards if they haven't gotten 'official' ones up yet.


And seriously, if you haven't worked with this stuff it may not seem like a big deal, but having the toolsets all created (assuming they aren't lying to buy more time) is a HUGE step toward getting this game actually finished. It almost literally is half the battle won.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:05 pm

Bloodywolf wrote:
Duncan.Oliver wrote:
You'll have to buy the new X-ray DVD player, which takes the new 2 cm. discs.

*facepalm*

Wouldn't it be a X-ray player then? (like you got DVD players and Blue-ray players, there is no such thing as a Blue-ray DVD-CD player XD)

There's also such a thing as over-analyzing a joke. The point was, spend too much time in torpor and you have to buy new tech stuff.

I also didn't want to have to explain it like you just did. First Rule of comedy: "If you have to explain the joke, it's not a joke!!"
-- The Joker
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:06 pm

I'm Batman.
-- Batman
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:57 pm

I hope they don't really ban certain names. I was looking forward to befriending people with names like "Bella1998" or "TeamEdward34", and then screwing them over royally, as an introduction to the World of Darkness. LOL

Ah, so many games, so few girlfriends. Very Happy Warhammer, In Nomine, Star Wars, GURPS, Chainmail (precursor to D&D), etc., etc.. Back in the days before high-impact dice -- the corners of my d20s would become so worn and rounded that they never stopped rolling.

Having grown up with some pretty unwieldy game systems, the combat system in OWoD didn't bother me too much. No matter what system you use, the roleplay is always more important. I liked the setting of VtM, and their take on the vampire myths.

I never felt the need to become ultra-powerful in games... neither did most of the people I gamed with. So the generation thing didn't bug me. Like anything else (including real life), gaining power is not that difficult, if you're willing to pay the price. I like to think mouser9169 was exaggerating about diablerizing Caine -- I'd hate to play in any game where becoming ultra-powerful was the main goal. I always preferred the low-level games, because the weaker your character is, the more clever you're forced to become in order to survive.

I don't think any kind of day/night cycle would work in the WODMMO, because nobody likes forced downtime. I think it will be much more likely that you will enter certain maps that are 'daylight', where vampires are forced to stay underground/indoors. This would allow human characters the advantage in those areas, and make staying human feasible.

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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:00 pm

I hope that overtime, a proper Human & Ghoul system could be worked out, but I'm afraid there would be little use for those unless we're talking pure RP, I doubt there could be a place for them in actual 'dungeons'
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:09 pm

Frankly, if I'm going to play a vampire game, I don't want to be human for very long. Long enough to learn the hard way, "Hey, vampires really do exist."

I have no desire to play one of those ignorant jerks in the Society of Leopold, either. And the new Hunters, the "Imbued," aren't really human in the strictest sense. They have their own powers that make them superhuman.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:18 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
I hope they don't really ban certain names. I was looking forward to befriending people with names like "Bella1998" or "TeamEdward34", and then screwing them over royally, as an introduction to the World of Darkness. LOL

Though then there is the "Why did you do that..." crap. Still, I'd think anyone who prefers Twilight's rules would HOPEFULLY avoid this like the plague, depending how it's marketed(which I'd imagine isn't going to be with artsy covers and pithy teenage romance - though if it does, I'll be waiting for the subversion. Like the Baali clan book, Hah).

PGM1961 wrote:

I never felt the need to become ultra-powerful in games... neither did most of the people I gamed with. So the generation thing didn't bug me. Like anything else (including real life), gaining power is not that difficult, if you're willing to pay the price. I like to think mouser9169 was exaggerating about diablerizing Caine -- I'd hate to play in any game where becoming ultra-powerful was the main goal. I always preferred the low-level games, because the weaker your character is, the more clever you're forced to become in order to survive.

I'd think that if Caine was an outstanding figure(even just shrouded in mystery, or simply a random event or character), just trying to attack him wouldn't yield worthwhile results. As for feeling powerful, I wouldn't consider that the main goal either. I'd say have it more about how you gained that power, even if it pales in comparison to some other players. Say if you might get both the power and prestige to become a Primogen, and once there, you don't have much of a desire to be anything more.

PGM1961 wrote:

This would allow human characters the advantage in those areas, and make staying human feasible.

Meta as it might be, I'd consider being human in a world full of Vampires a big risk. That said, I can't speak for what scenario it might be, question or not, I'd hit that yes option as soon as I saw it, and the hell with the regrets(in a story sense anyway).
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:10 am

There's a little problem with trying to diabliroze Cain. Even if you can penetrate his Fortitude and sink your fangs into his neck, your own neck is going to suffer worse.

Genesis 4.13, 4.14, 4.15 wrote:
Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.

Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:43 am

Ah, someone else who has actually read the bible. (Or parts of it, anyway.)

Isn't it funny how the book of Genesis goes into detail about how old Adam and Seth were when their first sons were born, and how old they were when they died, and their children, and their children... but it doesn't mention how old Cain was when his first child was born? Or how old he was when he died? Just who begat whom, without any ages -- or even a mention of their deaths. Some say that the genealogy stuff is only to show how Noah was descended from Seth, not Cain. But then why list Cain's children at all? I always thought this was kind of weird, even as a boy.

Just thought I'd point that out.
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:55 am

I don't remember the Bible mentioning Caine's children in any way, but it's been a while since I've read it.

Returning to theMMO, this isn't strictly WoD related, it's from EVE. But I think it shows the spirit of CCP' games: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/180867/features/murder-incorporated/
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:13 am

PGM1961 wrote:
Ah, someone else who has actually read the bible. (Or parts of it, anyway.)

Isn't it funny how the book of Genesis goes into detail about how old Adam and Seth were when their first sons were born, and how old they were when they died, and their children, and their children... but it doesn't mention how old Cain was when his first child was born? Or how old he was when he died? Just who begat whom, without any ages -- or even a mention of their deaths. Some say that the genealogy stuff is only to show how Noah was descended from Seth, not Cain. But then why list Cain's children at all? I always thought this was kind of weird, even as a boy.

Just thought I'd point that out.

So their names weren't Enoch, Irad, Zillach? Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: World of Darkness MMO   Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:33 am

PGM1961 wrote:

I never felt the need to become ultra-powerful in games... neither did most of the people I gamed with. So the generation thing didn't bug me. Like anything else (including real life), gaining power is not that difficult, if you're willing to pay the price. I like to think mouser9169 was exaggerating about diablerizing Caine -- I'd hate to play in any game where becoming ultra-powerful was the main goal.

Then MMO's aren't really your thing - or at least aren't made with you in mind.

Character development is the be-all and end-all of the gaming experience. There will be little in-character roleplay (there may be an 'RP preferred server and a few guilds that do it). People are investing their time into their characters and they expect to see results: 'role play' conversations take time away from productive leveling, and time is a scarce resource. Whether that is by ever increasing tiers of gear, levels, skills, or some combination of those you have to provide a way for players to make their characters stronger every time they log in to the game.

Once they are all 'capped' out, they typically stop playing (and paying), unless they have found a dedicated guild with friends or they expect an expansion or content patch to raise those caps soon - they may leave and then come back when an expansion is released, at least until they hit cap again.

As for my comments about Caine - that was based on early dev comments (none of which can really be considered accurate or up to date any more) that players would be able to grow stronger through diablerie. PvP will only take you so far - eventually you'll get to the character that put all his 'points' into generation, and then where do you go? So you would need to have the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and finally 1st generation vampires to keep that progression going. The problem is - it's a 'closed' system. Once you hit 1st generation, you've got no place left to go. Skills then become the next area for growth, but that will cap out too, leaving only the gear grind.

If you compare most of the major MMO's on the market - underneath the different wrappings, they all have very similar mechanics (goes all the way back to Diku/Circle MUD's). Level based is generally preferred over skill based (going all the way back to Circle vs Rom MUD's) because players can 'gimp' themselves in a skill based system, and they hate that.

Bloodlines could very easily be converted to a level based system. If you read the post I put up about modding the text files, I give the outline of how you would do it. I suspect that the MMO will move at least somewhat in this direction, even if not everything is dependent on character level. Level + talent trees/AA's seems to be the best of both worlds, at least that anyone has come up with yet.

If they get their ass in gear and build this thing quickly, they'll be launching at a time when vampires are 'cool' and people are looking for games that feature them. They need something - they can't even just siphon off The Secret World, as that game didn't have enough players to support a subscription model, so they need to siphon off of other, more 'traditional' MMO's as well. That means WoW and EQII. A few players might come from the P&P world.
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