consequences for killing while feeding (and/or for killing in general)

i think there should be some.















***SPOILER WARNING***





for instance, in the game theres supposed to be a furor over the serial killer in Santa Monica who has killed like 3 people. what about the OTHER serial killer? you know, the one who killed every single homeless person in Santa Monica and drained their bodies of blood? Jack even warns you in the tutorial that you shouldnt kill the people you feed on least you draw attention, but you can always kill them and nothing ever comes of it.

also, the mission where you are supposed to board the ship and check out the sarcophagus. Lacroix specifically warns you not to kill the cops, as ripping out the throats and draining the blood of 30 LAPD officers would cause serious backlash. so why is it that after i did exactly that, there wasnt any backlash? he didnt even complain about it.


to a lesser extent, same goes for the museum thing. at first i was trying to be stealthy, but then when the floaty controls made it impossible for me to slip through the laser beams without setting them off (i didnt notice the switch :/), i finally just ran through them and easily killed all the guards. that worked even better and took half the time, and of course there was no backlash of any kind for leaving an entire museum's worth of security guards sucked dry of blood.

it just seems weird to me.




also, on an unrelated note, i wish Knox would stop respawning. i found him annoying, but he wont stay dead

In general, you are right -- there are not enough penalties for killing innocent civilians in the game. Zer0Morph tried to fix this in his 'The Final Nights' mod, but in my opinion he went overboard. For fans of the mod, I apologize, but I've read a few complaints on this forum about how letting your Humanity drop a little too low ends up turning into a destructive spiral, where you keep losing Humanity until you get a free trip to LaCroix's court, where his Sheriff lops off your head. Didn't happen to me, but then I don't feel the need to kill everything around me, even when I'm not playing a nice vampire.

Specifically though, you should have been scolded by LaCroix, both for killing the cops on the Elizabeth Dane and for killing the guards in the museum. If I'm not mistaken, this can lead to not getting the second haven in Downtown L.A., in the 'Skyeline Apartments' (fourth floor). If he never said anything either time, and you still got the L.A. haven, something is wrong. Childe? What do you think?

Never tried to kill Knox though. He was obviously tied to a few plot points (and therefore to XP awards), so I just put up with him. And once you're done with him, he's in the Asylum, which is Elysium and you can't kill him. If He ever wandered outside after that, I might have killed him just because he's an idiot.

I haven't tried to kill Knox either. For the same reasons PGM mentioned in his post.

If you still get the haven even after killing all the guards and police, there certainly is something wrong.

For the mass murderers among the LA vampires, I don't think the way Zer0 handles it is the right way. But leaving too many bloodless corpses should increase the hunter activity. I want to do something about that, but I don't know when I'll get to it. Probably not that soon though.
Except I change the release strategy for CE, and keep posting every time I have installed a new feature. But then I could only release it here, because uploading to a lot of places on a regular basis would take too much time, and with versions like that, I'd probably have to do a lot more support, so anybody who has access to this mod needs access to this forum as well, beause I couldn't do the necessary support on more than one forum.

And anyway, uploading to ModDB is too much troouble to do it more than once or twice a year. And Matthias from the Patches Scrolls would probably kill me if I had him download a new file every so often.

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Edit: I have tried killing off Knox. He didn't come back Should have done so after talking to him about Ghouls however...

PGM1961 wrote:

In general, you are right -- there are not enough penalties for killing innocent civilians in the game. Zer0Morph tried to fix this in his 'The Final Nights' mod, but in my opinion he went overboard. For fans of the mod, I apologize, but I've read a few complaints on this forum about how letting your Humanity drop a little too low ends up turning into a destructive spiral, where you keep losing Humanity until you get a free trip to LaCroix's court, where his Sheriff lops off your head. Didn't happen to me, but then I don't feel the need to kill everything around me, even when I'm not playing a nice vampire.

That was a glitch that was fixed in Beta before the release. When you killed an innocent you would lose 1 Humanity point, but then you would continue losing Humanity every 15 seconds or so until you eventually dropped to 0 and got your head lopped off. But again that was fixed.

What would be cool is if whenever you kill an innocent in any of the main hubs, police patrols and stepped up and you find more police wandering the streets for a certain amount of time. Of course more police guarding the streets would make it harder to feed.

Zer0Morph wrote:

What would be cool is if whenever you kill an innocent in any of the main hubs, police patrols and stepped up and you find more police wandering the streets for a certain amount of time. Of course more police guarding the streets would make it harder to feed.

...and easier to get busted and kill again, and lose Humanity and... Better to stick to the rats for a while. Rats are OK.

Rats are ok? Perhaps for you, Animal.
Personally I don't want to go on a rodent diet. I prefer human fresh from the neck, if the neck doesn't smell like old gym socks... (or as the Malk line goes: like Jack's breath. What breath, btw?)

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

Rats are ok? Perhaps for you, Animal.

*wags and jumps on Malkav to lick his face*
*fetches towel*

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Personally I don't want to go on a rodent diet. I prefer human fresh from the neck, if the neck doesn't smell like old gym socks... (or as the Malk line goes: like Jack's breath. What breath, btw?)

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Well, Jack was speaking. So I suppose he had to draw breath. Not that he needed oxygen any more.

*Wipes face*
Nice dog. Thanks for the towel. I really must talk to Claudia about getting these enchanted bones for you...
*Pats Ferals head, and very quickly withdraws fingers*

Ok. So Jack has to breathe for speaking. But what does his breath smell like? Does it still taste after the rum from his pirate days, some 400 years ago?

Back to the original topic:
If this is doable, what do you think of a counter for killing on feeding. And if you leave a certain number of drained corpses, ten or fifteen or so, you get a masquerade violation?

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

*Pats Ferals head, and very quickly withdraws fingers*

Yummy...

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Ok. So Jack has to breathe for speaking. But what does his breath smell like? Does it still taste after the rum from his pirate days, some 400 years ago?

Er...? Maybe of stale, unbathed corpse with unflossed fangs?

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Back to the original topic:
If this is doable, what do you think of a counter for killing on feeding. And if you leave a certain number of drained corpses, ten or fifteen or so, you get a masquerade violation?
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Good idea, although I think 5-10 corpses would be enough to warrant MV. With cops scratching their heads as to the cause of high tide of bloodles corpses somebody is going to do the maths. It could also got Hunters curious... Hardly any clearer giveaway there is a rot in the neighbourhood than a pile of drained corpses.
And maybe trigger for increased patrols for a set amount of time? You know, police investigating the crime scene, as after Gallery Noir?
But I'm not sure if the count should include those drained in Combat Zones: Society, Hallowbrook, etc. Both for game balance and for common sense: such places aren't too likely to attract old ladies to walk their poodles in and accidentaly happen onto a body

Of course I wasn't talking about combat areas. No need to draw the hunter's attention to the Society. They are already there...
And you're right. In Hallowbrook you probably won't meet old ladies walking their poodle. Unless the old lady is an old Tzimisce Lady, and the poodle a headrunner...

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

And you're right. In Hallowbrook you probably won't meet old ladies walking their poodle. Unless the old lady is an old Tzimisce Lady, and the poodle a headrunner...

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*whimpers and sits on hind legs*

This has gone too far.

I, the intensively divine ThePhilosopher, am here to bring back order to this topic.








French Fries are called just Fries in France?

In French we just say "fries", and it concerns all French-speaking countries (yes, even Quebec).

But what you guys call French Fries are actually.. Belgian.

Claudia wrote:

In French we just say "fries", and it concerns all French-speaking countries (yes, even Quebec).

But what you guys call French Fries are actually.. Belgian.

Those damn Belgians- they made you so bloody evil.

And they share a border with the Dutch...

And they have their Flemish nationalists extremists racist old assholes !
But they have awesome chocolate (and the best beer in the world, but I could care less about that since I don't drink). And cool places to visit and to take pictures

And remember, it was a Belgian who is responsible that we have to put up with LaCroix!

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Childe of Malkav wrote:

And remember, it was a Belgian who is responsible that we have to put up with LaCroix!

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Originally, with my Belgian Larp friends, we were browsing through all Ventrue NPCs (canon or not)..
And we came to the conclusion that the only one who could have embraced Lacroix would have been Gosuin... I was like "fuck !" We then facepalmed and agreed that no wonder he was sent to the new world to get ki.. I mean, to have him out of our way

(btw, Belgium was not even a country back then, it was a huge mess between Austria and Holland and shit ; it became a country in 1831 if I recall correctly )

Claudia wrote:

Originally, with my Belgian Larp friends, we were browsing through all Ventrue NPCs (canon or not)..
And we came to the conclusion that the only one who could have embraced Lacroix would have been Gosuin... I was like "fuck !" We then facepalmed and agreed that no wonder he was sent to the new world to get ki.. I mean, to have him out of our way

(btw, Belgium was not even a country back then, it was a huge mess between Austria and Holland and shit ; it became a country in 1831 if I recall correctly )

You recall correctly, as far as Belgium is concerned. But Gosuin is not the only possible elder to have Embraced LaCroix. The canon vampires listed in all of the books/game supplements/etc. are not the only elders to exist. "There are more vampires in heaven and earth, Claudia, than are dreamt of in your White Wolf lore." (paraphrasing Shakespeare) Using WW's "1 vampire per 100,000 humans" rule-of-thumb, that's about 70,000 vampires in the world (or more). Subtract about 20,000 for the Kuei-jin, and that's 50,000 vampires -- 108 of them in Belgium alone. Plus his sire could have moved elsewhere, out of shame.

So don't blame Gosuin for the power-hungry fop named Sebastian LaCroix. Lots of Ventrue could take the blame for him.

I have a solution! we go on hunting and diablerizing all Ventrue older than Lacroix! Problem solved.

ThePhilosopher wrote:

I have a solution! we go on hunting and diablerizing all Ventrue older than Lacroix! Problem solved.

That would be quite rad! But also impossible; one named Verdattha or something like that is reputed to live in a closed crypt in a city of Enoch in the Shadowlands. Guy must have agoraphobia... Any Giovanni on the forum to get him?

I'd do the same as him, if I were a vamp. I don't like the idea of Final Death, ya know?

ThePhilosopher wrote:

I'd do the same as him, if I were a vamp. I don't like the idea of Final Death, ya know?

Yeah, but sitting in a closed crypt with nothing to do mutt get boring after a century or so. Especially in Shadowlands.

Feral wrote:

ThePhilosopher wrote:

I'd do the same as him, if I were a vamp. I don't like the idea of Final Death, ya know?

Yeah, but sitting in a closed crypt with nothing to do mutt get boring after a century or so. Especially in Shadowlands.

Except considering that he's the Ventrue Antediluvian, he's got thousands upon thousands of conspiracies, plots and other nefarious plans to coordinate from afar with his max-level Dominate. I imagine he wouldn't want too many distractions in that case.

But that would make him burn blood like a military jet burns fuel. And where would he replenish it in a sealed crypt in Shadowlands?

ThePhilosopher wrote:

I have a solution! we go on hunting and diablerizing all Ventrue older than Lacroix! Problem solved.

What does that help with? Or did you intend to travel back in time,too. So you can kill his sire before the embrace?

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