Daimoinon Reworked (Discussion for TFN 1.2)

Hello fellow bloodsuckers and fiends!

I wanted to bring something to your attention regarding bug fixes and new features in the upcoming TFN 1.2. I spent some time with several TCI members (Karavolos and Dragatus) and read even more posts about how useless Daimoinon 4: Infernal Servitor was in TFN. So myself, K, and D, sat down and came up with some ideas to make it more useful and fair. While I was revamping Infernal Servitor I began testing out the other powers in the Daimoinon discipline set. To my disappointed I found another power lacking as well. Can you guess which power that was? Yeah you're right, Conflagration, the 3rd power in the set.

So not only did I make these two powers a little more powerful, but useful as well. Below is a description in fine detail as to what I did and how they can be used in the upcoming TFN 1.2.

Daimoinon 4: Infernal Servitor
Costs: 1 Blood
Description: Opening a portal to the abyss the Kindred may summon a demonic entity to enter this world momentarily to claim its victim. This vile creature will attempt to enter the body of its prey and devour it from within, usually leaving nothing in its wake. While this discipline is normally fatal to most, many supernaturals will attempt to resist the demon, while the faithful can ignore it outright.
Changes: Infernal Servitor is now an overt power meaning people witnessing it will run in fear, or in the case with those who don't scare easily, will attack you. If you use this power in public it will incur a masquerade violation. This flag was meant to be on from the beginning, I'm surprised I didn't catch the bug.

Another major change is that this power now affect NON-BOSS Supernaturals, however they do have a chance to resist it. All supernaturals have a 60% chance to resist this power and if they do, will suffer damage between 30% - 40% of their total hit dice. If they don't resist it (40% chance), the demon will devour the supernatural from within with a chance of making the supernatural explode just like the humans. The common Tzimisce headrunner enemies and Crackhouse plague victims now fall into this category so they will be affected the same way. High level Tzimisce creations are still affected the same way.

Boss supernaturals will be affected by this power just like they were in previous versions of TFN, there was no change here. We felt the amount of XP spent to acquire Infernal Servitor didn't match the fact that it could only be used on humans. Hopefully this will make players feel they didn't waste their XP getting it on the way to level 5: Concordance.

Daimoinon 3: Conflagration
Costs: 1 Blood
Description: Evil spreads through the Kindred like wildfire allowing her to bring about the flames of Hell into a fiery ball of heat. This ranged fire attack causes Aggravated damage to both Kine and Kindred alike. This ability is an obvious violation of the Masquerade.
Changes: Just like Infernal Servitor, I personally felt that this power wasn't as powerful as it should be, nor was it very useful, so I made some hopefully welcome changes. Conflagration was always meant to tie up the enemy by making them fan the flames to avoid further burning which would give the PC time to attack them freely. It was more of a hold than a damage dealer. The problem was that it didn't hold supernaturals at all, just humans, and barely did any damage at that. So now, supernaturals will be busy fanning the flames for approx. 6-7 seconds while you will have time to reload your weapons, choose your disciplines, or attack them outright. Not only that, but this power also damages supernaturals much more now, even more than humans. It will hurt supernaturals at about 20% - 30% of their total hit dice, which is pretty nice considering it holds them as well.

I played around with this power in the blood hunt sequence and it was invaluable against the kindred using celerity, it stops them right in their tracks. Wonderful!

I hope you guys like the changes, if not then let's discuss.

Interesting. I actually thought Conflagration was the best power in the discipline. It was weak against normal opponents (who can easily be killed in many other ways so no big deal), but very valuable as a boss killer. Doing 120 damage per hit to Ming was fun.

Yay for useful Infernal Servitor and credits

I also agree with Draggy that Conflagration was useful for fighting bosses, but nonetheless I welcome the change of being able to effectively use it on more than about 10 parts of the game (<-- Totally didn't count the amount of bosses in Bloodlines). Stun = Approval

I look forward to see what else will be new in 1.2, but for now I will simply say..
Kudos Zer0

Zer0 did Good, YAY!!!

Conflagration was only good for 10% of the game? See now I don't like to hear that. In that case I really welcome the change now. I was trying to use it as a stun in the bloodhunt and bradbury areas and was sad at how lame it was, but now it rocks my socks off! HAHA

The big thing about Conflagration being a bosskiller is that when you encounter a boss in a quest you have to fight them to progress through the quest. You can't sneak past them or seduce them or any of the many options you have available against everybody else.

But for a mere 18 exp the Baali could get a tool that allows him to kill everyone from bishop Vick to the tentacle queen. If it wasn't for Bach and his stupid immunity Conflagration would have allowed the Baali to get through the entire game with a non-combat build.

But don't get me wrong, I really like it that it will now be useful against normals as well. Just one question: will it stun bosses for 6-7 seconds as well or will it work against them the same way it does now?

I hear what you're saying Dragatus. As of right now it will only hold humans (non-hunter) and kindred (non-boss). So against bosses, nothing has changed.

Just wondering Zer0: was anything else changed about the Baali to make them less OP'ed, or do you intend to let them have the best clan bonus attribute at start of the game with this bonus of making their unique powers even more useful?

Loaded question, I know, but I have to believe there is a different bonus that can be applied to them than leaving it as-is. Imo, no clan should have that kind of ability to draw out more xp points and thus acquire skills faster than everyone else *by default*.

That's a good question, and yes the Baali will be reworked as a whole, I just haven't had time to start their reconstruction which is why you haven't seen anything posted yet. I'm still working on the Samedi clan, fine tuning them, and I'm creating a new weapon that can be used for Unarmed characters to make Unarmed viable again.

Don't worry, the Baali will be reworked and possibly nerfed as a result.

I'm so looking forward to my first samedi playtrhough with your difficulty addition on needing to actually work to not get police/masquerade problems out the wazoo.

I am worried it will make it impossible for me to enjoy playing nossy in CE though :/

all this talk about FN 1.2 is making me so happy. Between needing a new motor for my car and having problems with my oven, I come here to be cheered up with FN 1.2 progress updates. LOL

Sezneg wrote:

I'm so looking forward to my first samedi playtrhough with your difficulty addition on needing to actually work to not get police/masquerade problems out the wazoo.

I am worried it will make it impossible for me to enjoy playing nossy in CE though :/

Sezneg, I promise you won't be disappointed. Basically if ANYONE sees you on the streets, the police will get summoned immediately. If you get too close to anyone and are visible, you get a masquerade violation. Inside the stores, apartments, diners, etc... if anyone sees you they will run away in fear and any security will instantly begin attacking you, then the police will get called and will be waiting outside.

You're going to LOOOOOOOVVVVEEEE IT!

PS: Sewer travel is almost a must now, at least until you get Obfuscate 4 and can start running while invisible.

aneumann01 wrote:

all this talk about FN 1.2 is making me so happy. Between needing a new motor for my car and having problems with my oven, I come here to be cheered up with FN 1.2 progress updates. LOL

Aneumann01, you poor thing. I'm so sorry to hear about all of your troubles. I wish you had a haggle of 10 so you could get some quick cash to fix your stuff. I promise I'm doing my best to get TFN 1.2 ready for release as fast as possible. I've been putting in overtime into this game to get it ready. I've even been modding while I'm at work (and trying not to get caught, haha).

Zer0Morph wrote:

I've even been modding while I'm at work (and trying not to get caught, haha).

I hope you're really good at not getting caught. Getting fired would probably delay TFN 1.2 more than working at work is advancing your progress.

Dragatus wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

I've even been modding while I'm at work (and trying not to get caught, haha).

I hope you're really good at not getting caught. Getting fired would probably delay TFN 1.2 more than working at work is advancing your progress.

Seconded. Take care, not overdo it.

Third, it was enough with one logical explanation of how Tremere boob jobs would work from Claudia.

I know I shouldn't work on it at work but sometimes I get addicted. Thoughts on how to implement things will race in my mind all night and I can't wait until after work to code it, it's just so fun!! I'll try to tone it down some though.

It's okay Zer0. I have a high bloodbuff. I work it to my advantage as much as possible.

Zer0Morph wrote:

That's a good question, and yes the Baali will be reworked as a whole, I just haven't had time to start their reconstruction which is why you haven't seen anything posted yet. I'm still working on the Samedi clan, fine tuning them, and I'm creating a new weapon that can be used for Unarmed characters to make Unarmed viable again.

Don't worry, the Baali will be reworked and possibly nerfed as a result.

Glad to hear it

Atm I am wondering how I can come to terms with enjoying a playthrough on Samedi/Nos. Where's the fun in accruing tons of masq violations and not being able to talk normally with so many of the game's regular NPCs? Feel like I am missing something here..

You are roleplaying
Lerning how it is like when you have to hide all the time.

I actualled enjoyed my Santa Monica playthrough with the new Samedi rules. It was hard, VERY hard, but I guess that's what I liked about it. Eventually I got pretty smooth at navigating around town though I used the sewers quite often as it was alot faster than staying obfuscated. Plus there is an endless supply of blood down there.

Remember, the new Samedi gave new merits and flaws. One of the new merits is that all Samedi start with level 2 Obfuscate which you can sink a third point in right from the get go if you want. That's what I did which means I was only 1 point away from Obfuscate 4 at the beginning of the game. And of course you know Obfuscate 4 means running while invisible.

Zer0Morph wrote:

I actualled enjoyed my Santa Monica playthrough with the new Samedi rules. It was hard, VERY hard, but I guess that's what I liked about it. Eventually I got pretty smooth at navigating around town though I used the sewers quite often as it was alot faster than staying obfuscated. Plus there is an endless supply of blood down there.

Remember, the new Samedi gave new merits and flaws. One of the new merits is that all Samedi start with level 2 Obfuscate which you can sink a third point in right from the get go if you want. That's what I did which means I was only 1 point away from Obfuscate 4 at the beginning of the game. And of course you know Obfuscate 4 means running while invisible.

*Covers Ears* LA LA LA I didn't hear that. I don't wanna hear about it...LA LA LA YOU SIR ARE A TEASE! LOL I can't wait. Samedi is my favorite as you well know

Good point, but honestly (and I feel meh for saying it this way) the Samedi/Nos look so ugly that I would just end up hating the char that I've made lol.

Who'd want to role-play a butt-ugly, utterly loathsome blood sucker? Lol, the imagery is just too twisted

Based just on my reservations, I will force myself to try it in v1.2 though. Can't judge a book too quick after all.

temporae wrote:

Good point, but honestly (and I feel meh for saying it this way) the Samedi/Nos look so ugly that I would just end up hating the char that I've made lol.

Who'd want to role-play a butt-ugly, utterly loathsome blood sucker? Lol, the imagery is just too twisted

Based just on my reservations, I will force myself to try it in v1.2 though. Can't judge a book too quick after all.

The Nosferatu/Samedi are probably the most badass clans out there. They have a nice set up of disciplines and have almost nothing but positives for them.

The Nosferatu, as everyone knows, are ugly beings. However, they stick together like a closely knit family, and have a database to connect all of them together. They are masters at manipulation and have terrifying defense mechanisms in their warrens. They can blend in, with some obscene help from Obfuscate, but they make their warrens using Potence and control animals that live in them with Animalism. Not to mention that in some twisted ways, with their use of Potence and literally underground artistry, they are better than the Toreador.

The Samedi are just as awesome, if not, then even moreso than the Nosferatu, despite being a bloodline. They make for great assassins and intimidating body guards, with the rotting flesh schitck. Not to mention that they can trick people with their brittle looks, since they have Fortitude. Again, they can somewhat blend in with some help from Obfuscate, but not really due to their stench, which means that they must be better than the Nosferatu when it comes to the shadows. But the real thing that makes them a force to be reckoned with is Thanatosis their clan discipline. With it, they can outright warp your form to a point where even the most enlightened on the Path of Metamorphasis would get jealous.

Case in point, how are they not awesome?

SaulottheGentle wrote:

Case in point, how are they not awesome?

They're ugly and they stink.

Well stated Drag


But I do see your point Saulot, it's just a matter of getting over the urge to vomit at the sight of them ...once this is done, I doubt I'd have any complaints playing either as Samedi/Nos.

Zer0Morph wrote:

I actualled enjoyed my Santa Monica playthrough with the new Samedi rules. It was hard, VERY hard, but I guess that's what I liked about it. Eventually I got pretty smooth at navigating around town though I used the sewers quite often as it was alot faster than staying obfuscated. Plus there is an endless supply of blood down there.

Remember, the new Samedi gave new merits and flaws. One of the new merits is that all Samedi start with level 2 Obfuscate which you can sink a third point in right from the get go if you want. That's what I did which means I was only 1 point away from Obfuscate 4 at the beginning of the game. And of course you know Obfuscate 4 means running while invisible.

DO WANT.

Heck, even without Obfuscate 4, once you learn the sewers they are very well laid out in the first two hubs and the rat supply more than covers some slow obfuscate use.

I'd be interested to see you handle chinatown in the new ruleset, that's the ultimate challenge IMO. It's very populated, and the sewer access points are not as helpful.

Personally, I plan to try to play through your new rules without any further obfuscate points, and a sneak no higher than 5.