Newcomer here - needing a guide/walktrough to the mod and tips on minmaxing

Helo everyone! I have just returned to Bloodlines again -I do ir every two years or so, whenever I play an RPG and remember all the wasted potential of this stillborn masterpiece... And then I found that the magnificient mods and comunity patches keep growing in awe and enjoyability (R.I.P for the project resougence, thogh, and shame on you White Wolf!)

Anyway, to my topic. I have been reading the new mechanics reviews and just now I feel overwhelmed. How to build my character? Which missions do first? Which solutions will give me more xp?

So what i wished I could find:

A) a complete walkthrough detailing the missions and its rewards at the actual state of the moded game. I'm most certain that this is probably not already done, so instead, I wanted to ask for some specific information:

B) Which is the average and max experience one can acquire during a full playthrough? By average I mean solving situation in a non-exceptional fashion, e.g. siding with one of the Assylum sisters; by max I mean the max you can squeeze out by doing the Tourette-level solution for each situation.

C) Which is the max feats values used ingame. For example, I think vanilla never require a 10 in seduction or in persuasion. If I can spare myself some xp by knowing that I would be much gratefull

D) Which level of investigation (the feat that "make appear" looting item in the scenarios, are needed for each one-time level. By one-time level I mean e.g.the ocean House or Grount mansion, which once you exit, you can never revisit. I want to be sure that I will have enough of that ability to not let any item scape.

E) Information regarding which foes can spot me event when obfuscated. Specially, i'm interested in wheter or not "headrunner" and other warren monster can spot me, for I hate them -they annoy me to the point that eroding my will to play beyond Holliwood. If I could at least partially skip them I would be most gratefull.

F) In general, I want to make a build that relies heavily in obfuscation for sneak's sake, and that excel in social skill. I wished to keep seduction, haggle scholarship and persuasion as high as posible (I mean the final feat rating, not the particular skills/talents/etc.) How should I go about it? (I think the baali are the best for this, given obfuscate + the demonic disciplines... should i have those or obfuscate + presence?)

(Speaking of the baali, I assume that plot-wise they are tremere. Will they get the standard second haven or the one in the chantry? -It will be the first time i grab that, by the way. Are also the salubri like malkavians, dialogue-wise)

G) Related to F) how should I go about maximising the benefits from the college? (I assume all lore books are gone now, right? I mean, which lessons take there for the purposes of my build. (If there is a general guide to the college, could you please point me to the relevant topic?). Also related to this, Are the stat boni granted by NPC (for example, the brawl/mele boost Nines gives you if under 3) still the same as in vanilla?


Well that what a bunch of asking... so thank you very very much for reading through it and for any answer you may be able and willing to give me!

ngppgn wrote:

A) a complete walkthrough detailing the missions and its rewards at the actual state of the moded game.

I don't think anyone has written a complete walkthrough for TFN.

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B) Which is the average and max experience one can acquire during a full playthrough? By average I mean solving situation in a non-exceptional fashion, e.g. siding with one of the Assylum sisters; by max I mean the max you can squeeze out by doing the Tourette-level solution for each situation.

Minimum XP is about 120, maximum XP is about 300. 200-240 XP should be realistic for a normal character..

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C) Which is the max feats values used ingame. For example, I think vanilla never require a 10 in seduction or in persuasion. If I can spare myself some xp by knowing that I would be much gratefull

I don't know, but I think this has been left unchanged.

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D) Which level of investigation (the feat that "make appear" looting item in the scenarios, are needed for each one-time level. By one-time level I mean e.g.the ocean House or Grount mansion, which once you exit, you can never revisit. I want to be sure that I will have enough of that ability to not let any item escape.

There is no occult loot in the one-time levels anymore. All occult items that are used are either given as quest rewards or sold by Mr Ox in Chinatown. However, high Inspection will allow you to find stuff laying around the hubs. For example with 10 Inspection I found an Odious Chalice and Body Armor in Chinatown.

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E) Information regarding which foes can spot me event when obfuscated. Specially, i'm interested in wheter or not "headrunner" and other warren monster can spot me, for I hate them -they annoy me to the point that eroding my will to play beyond Holliwood. If I could at least partially skip them I would be most gratefull.

I played a Samedi and I could Obfuscate past the critters, but several Sabbat in the hotel could spot me with their Auspex. Chastity could also spot me.

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F) In general, I want to make a build that relies heavily in obfuscation for sneak's sake, and that excel in social skill. I wished to keep seduction, haggle scholarship and persuasion as high as posible (I mean the final feat rating, not the particular skills/talents/etc.) How should I go about it? (I think the baali are the best for this, given obfuscate + the demonic disciplines... should i have those or obfuscate + presence?)

(Speaking of the baali, I assume that plot-wise they are tremere. Will they get the standard second haven or the one in the chantry? -It will be the first time i grab that, by the way. Are also the salubri like malkavians, dialogue-wise)

A Baali can get the Tremere haven, but it requires Persuasion. Salubri don't use the Malkavian dialogue, they speak normally. They do get some unique Obeah dialogue lines however.

Baali is a good choice for what you want to do. Daimonion 3 is awesome. It's extremely good at killing bosses and the rest of the powers are getting buffed in the 1.2 patch so it should be good. But I'm not a fan of Daimonion 5 because it uses the unarmed animation. I prefer guns and swords.

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G) Related to F) how should I go about maximising the benefits from the college? (I assume all lore books are gone now, right? I mean, which lessons take there for the purposes of my build. (If there is a general guide to the college, could you please point me to the relevant topic?). Also related to this, Are the stat boni granted by NPC (for example, the brawl/mele boost Nines gives you if under 3) still the same as in vanilla?

Only Camarilla Edition uses the e-mail college. The Final Nights is still using the books. The one change is that instead of finding the books scattered throughout the game they are all sold by Jimmy Reed and Akeem (so you need plenty of money to make use of Research). As far as I know the stat boni are indeed the same as vanilla.

ngppgn wrote:

C) Which is the max feats values used ingame. For example, I think vanilla never require a 10 in seduction or in persuasion. If I can spare myself some xp by knowing that I would be much gratefull

Inspection goes all the way up to 10. All 4 main hubs use Inspection 10 to reveal an occult item. Inspection 9 reveals the next stage armor in that given hub, meaning the Santa Monica hub reveals the LA armor, if you have an Inspection of 9.

Seduction goes up to 9. If you have a Seduction of 9 or 10, you automatically seduce all 4 blood dolls in all 4 maps. You really only need to get it to 9 but don't tell anyone that.

Haggle 10 is useful. If you have a Haggle of 10, your buy/sell becomes the same price meaning you sell everything at face value and can rebuy it back for the same price.

Things like Lockpicking, Hacking, Intimidation, and Persuasion don't need to be at 10 and if they do, I didn't put it there. I'm working on fixing this for TFN 1.3 however, so that you can get a real benefit by getting these to 10, but for now, 7 or 8 I'm sure is fine.

ngppgn wrote:

F) In general, I want to make a build that relies heavily in obfuscation for sneak's sake, and that excel in social skill. I wished to keep seduction, haggle scholarship and persuasion as high as posible (I mean the final feat rating, not the particular skills/talents/etc.) How should I go about it? (I think the baali are the best for this, given obfuscate + the demonic disciplines... should i have those or obfuscate + presence?)

Draggy and I must have differing ideas on this but I'd think the Followers of Set would be the overall best clan for the build you're talking about. They get a +1 to Charisma (I think) and the use of Serpentis in dialogue is invaluable, plus you can use "Eyes of the Serpent" to put people to sleep while Obfuscated. Baali would be my 2nd choice for this build but could work out very well also. I reworked Daimoinon to be more effective against supernaturals so you would have that going for you too. Either clan is a good choice but I think Setites win overall.

Actually I almost suggested him to take the Setite, but the Baali works very well too. Especially if he wants maximum XP and a minimal combat build.

Daimonion 3 fireballs are all you'll ever need for a bossfight. Serpentis is great, but if you already have Seduction and Persuasion you don't need it. And the Charisma bonus is nice, but you won't need more than Charisma 3 so it saves you only 8 XP, while the Baali XP bonus can give you up to 32 bonus XP if you do all the quests the optimal way. That's a 24 XP advantage for the Baali, which essentially equals a free 5th dot in a discipline.

Thanks for the replies! Now I can start with some confidence. I think I will try the Baali, its good to have some firepower (no pun intended :-) to complement the sneaky build.

You say the critters can't see me. Thats a grat new!! Does it mean that e.g. I could get to the boss fight in the Fiend mansion with no skirmish with its minion prior to it? That would be a gamesaver.

I think I'll have to do the Hallowbrook hotel old school style. With some look, I will have some good weaponry at that stage.

So, to clarify, for example, in the Ocean House, all the loot is visible by every posible character? (I'm thinking speially in the fireaxe). Thats also great. i now can go confidently to one-time places without needing to make much sidequests first -for example, I was wondering if I should go first to the beach house or do some sidequiesting first to enhance my inspection).

Other thing, you can both have the tremere haven and the other downtown haven, or only one of them?

Regarding the guide, can I use a vanilla's one for quests purpose? Are the vanilla quest modified regarding how much xp diferent outcomeS provide? Are there new quests?

And finally, where is the Reed vendor?

Many thanks in advance. You guys are awesome. I hope not to annoy you too much, I only want to have the greater experience playing this game

P.S: A last minor thing. I have gone to the pawnshop and see the vendor sells the stack. Is it removed from the beach? Or is it another case of item awaiting you to raise your inspection?

Edit: another one: does histories have any plot impact? Or only the slight stat modifications listed in their descrptions? What history do you recomend for a female baali with my proyected build?

Thanks and apologies again for my too noobish questions

ngppgn wrote:

Thanks for the replies! Now I can start with some confidence. I think I will try the Baali, its good to have some firepower (no pun intended :-) to complement the sneaky build.

You say the critters can't see me. Thats a grat new!! Does it mean that e.g. I could get to the boss fight in the Fiend mansion with no skirmish with its minion prior to it? That would be a gamesaver.

That's right, the headrunners won't be able to see you in the Fiend mansion or the Warrens level. In fact, none of the Tzimisce creations can see you in the Warrens if you're Obfuscated. I would recommend Obfuscate 4 or 5 by the time you get to the Warrens so that you can run. Saves a lot of blood trying to figure out where to go.

ngppgn wrote:

So, to clarify, for example, in the Ocean House, all the loot is visible by every posible character? (I'm thinking speially in the fireaxe). Thats also great. i now can go confidently to one-time places without needing to make much sidequests first -for example, I was wondering if I should go first to the beach house or do some sidequiesting first to enhance my inspection).

That's right, all of the loot is visible to everyone in those 1 time places if you know where to look. The only places where loot is invisible and unable to obtain are the 4 main hubs, the starting haven, and the pier in Santa Monica, which you can get too anytime you want. I never placed a fireaxe is the Ocean House hotel so you can save your time looking for it.

ngppgn wrote:

Other thing, you can both have the tremere haven and the other downtown haven, or only one of them?

Only 1 haven per Kindred, sorry.

ngppgn wrote:

Regarding the guide, can I use a vanilla's one for quests purpose? Are the vanilla quest modified regarding how much xp diferent outcomeS provide? Are there new quests?

I honestly don't know but I DO know that I didn't change any of the XP gained for vanilla quests. Any XP changing I did are listed in the "New Content" sections of the TFN mod.

ngppgn wrote:

And finally, where is the Reed vendor?

Jimmy Reed talks on the new pay phones in the arcade by the beach. To access him, you need to talk to Trip a 2nd time. Ask him "the weird question" and he'll have Jimmy send you an email. Check your email and read it, that will open him up as a vendor and a new quest. You get XP for the quest and an additional $200.

ngppgn wrote:

P.S: A last minor thing. I have gone to the pawnshop and see the vendor sells the stack. Is it removed from the beach? Or is it another case of item awaiting you to raise your inspection?

I think you meant to say Stake. The stake is sold by Trip but is also on the beach hidden. It's still in its original spot under the pier but you need an Inspection of 3 (I believe) to see it. The stake only costs like $10 or so, so I wouldn't worry if you have to buy it.

ngppgn wrote:

Edit: another one: does histories have any plot impact? Or only the slight stat modifications listed in their descrptions? What history do you recomend for a female baali with my proyected build?

The histories only modify the starting stats and give you an idea of who your character was before the embrace. It doesn't effect the plot or XP gain what so ever. As far as recommendations, I would go with a high Haggle Baali early on. Somewhere in the ballpark of 4 or 5. The reason for this is that all money based rewards are determined by your Haggle level, so you can make a lot of money early if you raise your Haggle early. For instance, selling the "unicorn" blood to Copper earns you money but how much depends on your Haggle level. You can make a quick $500 or so if your Haggle is around 4 or 5. Inspection is something you want to raise but a little bit later because you can always go back and find those items. Plus if your Haggle is high, you'll get more money for selling those items too. Something to think about.

GL

ngppgn wrote:

Thanks for the replies! Now I can start with some confidence. I think I will try the Baali, its good to have some firepower (no pun intended :-) to complement the sneaky build.

You'll lvoe the fireball. The damage it does is a percentage of the target's health so it's not much use against common enemies, but it really shines against bosses. In the fight against Ming I was doing over 100 damage per fireball.

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You say the critters can't see me. Thats a grat new!! Does it mean that e.g. I could get to the boss fight in the Fiend mansion with no skirmish with its minion prior to it? That would be a gamesaver.

I guess so, I haven't tried it.

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So, to clarify, for example, in the Ocean House, all the loot is visible by every posible character? (I'm thinking speially in the fireaxe). Thats also great. i now can go confidently to one-time places without needing to make much sidequests first -for example, I was wondering if I should go first to the beach house or do some sidequiesting first to enhance my inspection).

There is no real loot in the Ocean House. All the Inspection loot is placed in the 4 main hubs (Santa Monica, Downtown, Hollywood, Chinatown) and scattered over the entire area.

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Other thing, you can both have the tremere haven and the other downtown haven, or only one of them?

You can't have both.

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Regarding the guide, can I use a vanilla's one for quests purpose? Are the vanilla quest modified regarding how much xp diferent outcomeS provide? Are there new quests?

There may be slight variation in the XP provided, but it's nothing major.

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And finally, where is the Reed vendor?

Talk to Trip about learning skills and he'll direct you to a telephone on the pier where you can contact Reed.

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Many thanks in advance. You guys are awesome. I hope not to annoy you too much, I only want to have the greater experience playing this game

I'mn happy to help you get the greatest experience.

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P.S: A last minor thing. I have gone to the pawnshop and see the vendor sells the stack. Is it removed from the beach? Or is it another case of item awaiting you to raise your inspection?

You can still find the stake on the beach with enough Inspection. I think you'll need 5 or so.

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Edit: another one: does histories have any plot impact? Or only the slight stat modifications listed in their descrptions? What history do you recomend for a female baali with my proyected build?

Histories do not have any plot impact. They just shuffle your starting stats. Unless of course you play an Assamite. In that case the history will also determine the cost of upgrading a specific set of abilities. But for a Baali it has no impact beyond the starting stats.

Get the one that allows you to start with 3 dots in Knowledges and put them either into Finance or into Investigation, depending on personal preference.

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Thanks and apologies again for my too noobish questions

No need to apologize. Not everyone can be as wise as me.

Thank you all for your replies! now I feel prepared to undertake the dark journey (well, I may as well edit a history to lower the cost for finance, scholarship computer and research and increase the costs of firearms and some other stat, and roleplay it as a former business genious, reluctant to fall to the dark and low place that the night in L.A. is. I may event write a little AAR (fanfic) about it...

Many thanks again! I hope the mod keeps growing awesome

p.S. I'm I correct in the asumption that the "game in progress" is the indicated place to share after action report and fan-made stories about the game?

ngppgn wrote:

Thank you all for your replies! now I feel prepared to undertake the dark journey (well, I may as well edit a history to lower the cost for finance, scholarship computer and research and increase the costs of firearms and some other stat, and roleplay it as a former business genious, reluctant to fall to the dark and low place that the night in L.A. is. I may event write a little AAR (fanfic) about it...

Many thanks again! I hope the mod keeps growing awesome

p.S. I'm I correct in the asumption that the "game in progress" is the indicated place to share after action report and fan-made stories about the game?

This is for reviews:
https://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/f13-post-your-reviews-and-ideas

This for fanfiction:
https://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/f9-fan-fiction

And this is a LARP, storyteller of which is Regentia Secunda Claudia bani Tremere:
https://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/f28-roleplaying-area

Contact her if you want to role play.