Daytime in game

Thought a timer could be added to screen, or a working clock around the map - the clocks sound better, actually. The night would last, lets say, 15 minutes, in which you'd have to go out, do your thing and get inside, if you don't want to greet the sun. Fortitude would help, if you have a habit of being late. The timer - clocks would reset, when you get in your appartment and "click" the bed; or it could be another 15 minutes of sewer crawling.

I realize it's for the far future at best, but what do you think anyway? What about missions? Also, PC could sparkle before seting on fire

This one has been argued many times

First, the script needed to put it would be huge and difficult, if not impossible.

Secondly, the maps(of the sky) cannot be changed, so all you could possibly do (and i don't know if it's possible) is to increase the lightning in the entire hub, but if you looked at a certain angle you could still see the moon and a night sky.

Third, there's also the problem of the timer beign screwed up when the player enters/leaves one hub to another, or enter or leaves any building.

and most importantly Forth : This does nothing but TAKE AWAY something from the game, which is the free roam. while you could enjoy having to hide one or twice, and it does add realism, do you REALLY want to spend an entire game having to drop everything and hide every 15 minutes? At the middle of a quest, or when you're low on blood?. Even if you do, you gotta realize that casual players and even some hardcore players would hate it, i know i would.

Hope i helped.

I'm hardcore enough that I'd love a game where you had to watch the clock, and get under cover before the sun rises. But it's not going to be this one. Bloodlines is too limited. If they ever complete that Bloodlines: Resurgence project, and allow modders free rein to change what they please, then it would be nice to give that option at the start... "Do you want the daylight option?" But I don't even think the WODMMO will have daylight.

PGM1961 wrote:

I'm hardcore enough that I'd love a game where you had to watch the clock, and get under cover before the sun rises. But it's not going to be this one. Bloodlines is too limited. If they ever complete that Bloodlines: Resurgence project, and allow modders free rein to change what they please, then it would be nice to give that option at the start... "Do you want the daylight option?" But I don't even think the WODMMO will have daylight.

Given that the WOD is adamant about the fact that Vampires can't stand the sun, it is obvious that it is better that both Redemption(who we all know used sunlight for all of one section of the game, and only because it says you couldn't deal with Luther Black otherwise), and Bloodlines, who avoided it entirely. In both these instances, it might not be realistic, but then, making it so would be quite the fun gimmick...at first. Then you just end up wondering why they bothered.

In some other games, where the character is specifically able to stand the sun, either because it only takes away their powers(i.e similar to some portrayals of Dracula), or you play as something like a half-Vampire(i.e a Dhampir), and it doesn't kill you instantly, it only stings(or rather chip very slowly at your health bar).

I don't like the idea. It's way too interruptive to be fun.

Setting up a timer isn't too hard. Even adding a bit of time for taxi or sewer travel would not be a big problem. Idon't know about settting up a clock on the HUD. Probably the only thing possible there would be a countdown like the bomb timers at the Soc of Leopold, or the Sabbat warehouse.

Well, it's not me who has to think about it. I have no intention to put any sunlight into CE.

-

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Well, it's not me who has to think about it. I have no intention to put any sunlight into CE.

Probably for the best. It would probably be like the Nosferatu traveling through the sewers... at first, it's interesting, because it's new territory and a different experience from the other clans... but long before the end of the game, it turns into a major pain in the butt. Especially since I stubbornly refuse to run down the middle of the street, like some people. It might be far enough away from the pedestrians that you don't get a Masquerade violation, but it's unrealistic in game terms.

Even in PnP games, where you have to watch the clock and avoid the sunrise, once you're safe in your haven the storyteller just says, "Okay, time passes," and it's the next evening. If you had to wait around any time at all, it would be boring, and detract from the gaming experience. So I suppose it's best that I don't get my wish for daylight.

Well, doing something like clicking on the bed to jump forward in time to the next sundown isn't that hard to implement. But what do I do if there is about 5 minutes of nighttime left, and the only quest to do is the museum. It probably wouldn't take up too much time to go back to your haven, look into the email, have a quick dinner off Heather, and go to sleep. But it disrupts the gameflow, and you always have to make the choice "Can I do his quest in the time left?". Do I want to hurry through the Ocean house to get it over with, or do I wait till next night, so I have the time to do it properly, and enjoy the atmosphere...

-

I must admit I never got the whole "go to your haven to skip time" thing people did in pnp, in the games I've run the havens have always been a part of the game as an extension of the characters and their development. If nothing else camarilla law gives you the upper hand in your own haven.

Waiting can be an interesting ST mechanic in pnp too, if used correctly. However computer games don't have the indulgence of a human being manipulating the scene for each player to enjoy correctly, the length would be arbitary rather than specific to the player actions and patience.

Point taken.

The sun is a myth. I've never seen it, so it doesn't exist. I mean really... a big ball of fire millions of times larger than the earth? That's a pretty big square. I don't believe it.

redeyesandlonghair wrote:

The sun is a myth. I've never seen it, so it doesn't exist. I mean really... a big ball of fire millions of times larger than the earth? That's a pretty big square. I don't believe it.

What are you talking about? The sun's nothing but Apollo's chariot. He drives it across the heavens when he's not playing the lyre or inspiring the oracle at Delphi...

-

8people i wholy agree

before bloodloss being instituted i remember always delighting it doing stuff at my haven like watching tv and listening to the radio, and it lasts a long while for the whole radio broadcast to recycle, and because news casts on tv are so random it lasts a long time before you are sure that any new news byte will only be a repeat of previous ones and not a new previously unheard one. and i also wouldn't mind checking all my emails even if there was none new. i even for example store the arm you get from gimble at the fridge and now useless plot items like victor crumbs license in the drawers. and regarding drawers i used to like to collect weapons, buy each and everyone of them, even if in the end i only went around with one of each category, so i would have to store unused ones in the drawers.

all this to say, believe it or not, such banal activities, that do not advance the plot in anyway, that can be described as chores, that you can do them in this game has always been paradoxically a great attractive to me. i don't mind interrupting the plot to do these chores.

so i wouldn't mind being forced to do them by daytime, having to retreat periodicaly to my haven by daylight, where i could execute them.

ooh someone mentioned, yes to chat with my ghoul!

and if like childe mentioned you could just opt to go to bed and sleep....

or wander around the sewers feeding on mice....

or thoroughly exploring a building where you previously had a quest, maybe you were too busy with combat to be sure you had found everything....

so many things to do.....

as it is, i agree with red eyes, the sun is a myth......

I agree with most of what you wrote, but one thing. During daylight, Kindred are overcome by slumber. Between sunup and sundown all a honest Kindred does is to sleep. Unless we are speaking of a Cainite on a Path of Enlightment...

Well, I'm around for some millennia now. And I have never seen the sun. It must be a myth.

-

Hmm well we can't due without empirical evidence though. Why don't you all stay up tomorrow and be sure?

Velvet wrote:

so i wouldn't mind being forced to do them by daytime, having to retreat periodicaly to my haven by daylight, where i could execute them.

Not to bring up this old topic again but I agree with Velvet here. I do enjoy the remedial things in Bloodlines. In fact, I still walk through the streets of the hubs instead of run just so I blend in with everyone else. Do I need too? Of course not, the AI doesn't care if I run or walk, but I do. I also take all the plot items (like purses, diaries, and licenses) back to my haven and store them in the drawers. Why? Because I don't want their items linking me to crimes. Would it? Of course not but it makes for a more fun and real experience for me.

As far as the daylight thing goes, if it were up to me and I had the time, I would definitely implement this, however I would implement it in a different way from the ways I've heard so far.

First the counter would be more like an hour of real time play, not 15 minutes, that's WAAAY too short and disruptive. Two, the player would need to get back to their haven in time except when on a mission that prevents it (Grout's Mansion or Museum). In the case with those quests, the timer would stop running while in the mission and then when the player completes it, you would have 5 minutes left to get back to your haven. Sure time is skewed a little during that time but it shouldn't be a big deal.

Anyways, I would like this to increase immersion as long as it doesn't disrupt the flow of the game and create another chore.

I see no reason for it. If it's every 15 minutes, it's annoying. If it's every hour, it's so rare to serve only to say it exists.

If you want to implement something like a daylight timer, you also have to take care of travel time between hubs. I don't believe that either the LA cabbies or the Sewer Department have invented the Transporter yet. At least I don't recall calling the cabbie "Scotty", or "Chief O'Brian."

And I do agree with the Philosopher, 15 min. is way too interruptive, and an hour is an eternity. Also you have to take into account that dialogs need to be slowed down to real (i.e. real for the player) time, while the rest of the game moves on a much faster, but not constant, time frame.

-

two totally off the cuff ideas:

indeed subjective time alters. it seems to drag forever when we are bored and to fly when we are entertained, and in instances of extreme stress drag to a crawl. it makes sense that the clock alters, whether we are merely walking along in the streets or engaged in dialogue that is relevant or engaged in action in a mission.

but why do we need to be back in our havens at night? any indoors should do it! so what we are caught by daylight in grout's mansion? wait grout's mansion, the end scene, does demand that we leave it in haste, no? but only after a climatic action, examining grout's body, isn't it? my point is, we can be anywhere indoors, i mean if an mission takes us indoors to the inside of a building and we are caught by daylight while performing it, it is a question of remaining indoors after completing the business that led us ther and wait for night fall to return to the streets.

but yeah i can see how it would become either disruptive or unrealistic.... needing to stay indoors inside of a building where a mission led us after concluding our busniess there just because it is daylight outside.... or all those speeding up and slowing down and even interrupting of the clock....

but one last thing.
someone mentioned sewers. i don't see why we couldn't wait out daylight inside the sewers. they must be as lightproof as anywhere in the game gets. and we even have rats to go on feeding while we wait, to offset bloodloss.....

because no one has mentioned this issue: bloodloss. if daylight inplies that we can do nothing, that includes feeding, but we go on blood loss, growing ever hungrier and hungrier but unable to do anything for it..........

Maybe it doesn't have to be so hard, what about using an old cutscene from Redemption (when you are entering the tower) and play it when you first move to a new place like chinatown or hollywood, just to have the feeling that you slept when you first arrived and that the night is fresh.

Well first off, I'm never going to implement daylight in TFN so no worries there for those who don't want it. I was just making discussion on how it could be done so it's in the game but not obtrusive. As far as Nosferatu's Childe's idea, that could actually work and still give the player the sense that all of this isn't just happening over one night. That's not a bad idea.

Zer0Morph wrote:

As far as Nosferatu's Childe's idea, that could actually work and still give the player the sense that all of this isn't just happening over one night. That's not a bad idea.

Sometimes I amaze myself with my geniality

Nosferatu are crafty
I would like to have daylight in the game. But, and that is a big one, I think it would get annoying over time. It was done OK in Redemption: not to much, not to little. Exactly when it made sense. Fighting Lasombra elder at night = aggrevated suicide Even if said Lasombra was suicidal...

I like the idea of adding daylight, to give things more of a sense of urgency. But I'm also a fan of Nosferatu's Childe's idea about having a cutscene for sunrise, and for sunset, and the day is over. If you're basically comatose (we won't say dead) during the daytime, you won't realize time is passing anyway. So waiting 15 min. OR an hour doesn't make sense.

Also, as regards the blood loss timer... if daylight is implemented, I expect that the timer will go bye-bye, and be replaced by the standard one blood point when you 'wake up'. The blood timer is a substitute for daylight, and if daylight comes, the timer should go.

Of course, no offense, but I have my doubts that any of this is possible. It's hard enough for modders to make minor changes, without adding an additional cutscene every so often. But if you want to prove me wrong, go for it.

Well, it might be possible, but it's a complete change of the whole game mechanics. So that is a lot of work.
For me it was always self evident, that "daytime" would only be a short interrupt, not the whole time to wait out. But it would still be an interruption to the action, and require some preparation by the pc. You have to find some shelter to wait out the sunlight.

For the game mechanics it would involve at the very least these changes:
-add some timer to the HUD
-make the timer speed according to the current action and map scale. (I just can't believe that it takes the same amount of time to walk along the museum gallery and look at the exhibits, as it takes to walk from the Last Round to the Empire hotel.)
-calculate the time necessary to travel from hub to hub
-find a way to integrate dialogs into this system
-check if the pc has reached a secure shelter when the time is up
-decide and implement consequences if he has not
... and that probably is only the tip of the iceberg.

And personally I like the game as it is.

-