I want ....

Short version:

  I want dominate back in the game.    

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Long version:

Now while replaying the mod over and over again. I have one minor issue and I hope, even though I doubt it, that there is something that can be done about it. I have made quite some thoughts about it and I hope you guys listen and discuss it properly.

I would like to have dominate back in the game. And no, I don't want to have multiple installs for different mods and all.
Why do I want dominate? Because, while it is one of the reasons Vampires are that damn powerful and therefore it should be properly represented in "the" only vampire game out there, it also opens up new ways to play the game. While I can see how certain brujah modders might not be a fan of dominate, it just is some sweet delight to force your will upon someone else.    It is also way different to the presuation, seduction or intimidation approach.

Now, (I hope its possible with python to add dominate back into the game due to discipline slot restrictions or whatnot) I have made some thoughts how and where to implement it.

First of all we need a clan with dominate. Within the bloodlines/clans available lore wise not to many would suit. If we rule out Old Clan Tzimisce, Nagarajah basicly only Giovanni would be an option (or Xi Dundu (link) )

While Old Clan Tsimisce and Nagarajah would also need another disciple slot (AUS, ANI, DOM or AUS DOM NEC) they are way too scarce to be percieved as a playable character in my book (of course Baali and Viziers aren't the most common vampires as well, but hey ...)

So, it would be up to Giovanni or Xi Dundu. Xi Dundu, would fit the Laibon theme already so maybe exchanging one of them for the new Laibon with a new discipline to toy with would add more options. Giovanni would also be fine. Yes there are Giovanni in town already, but within the Giovanni Clan alot of different families struggle for power.

Different Families:

Within this families it is quite common to have different discipline combinations. So, want to have something like FOR POT DOM as disciples, the Milliner or Putanesca would suit perfectly. There still could be some conflicts with the Giovanni Plot though.

But there is another solution, which also adds to the approach we currently use in TFN already. The Baali/Tremere. Within the Baali, one of the major factions are so called Apostates. Apostates are members of other clans that gained the Baali clan due to some dark thaumaturgic rituals.  

More on Apostates:

So, this means that we could have a Baali, which looks even closer as a Thaumaturge than before as his disciples could be AUS DOM DAI. This is absolutely lore friendly (actually more lore friendly than playing a regular Baali, as their embrace is usually alot different - way more corpses included.) It is somewhat similiar to playing a Vizier instead of a normal Assamite. We have 1 less Obfuscate Clan to worry about (3 are too many in my book anyways and the Samedi has to stay for a different feel/experience ... maybe some Setite warriors instead, but this isn't needed).

In this way we could also keep the model (so none of the awesome remodeling work is lost). We wouldn't have to change anything at all really (maybe an introductory line about beeing an Apostate), but the use of Dominate. Even players that do not know to much about the world could get along better with the "why is Strauss, seeing him as a tremere" story.

So, bring back Dominate to the game! Its more lore friendly in any aspect (mental domination of the vampires, better baali embrace, more believable Strauss story) adds additional replayability value (Dominate in Conversations and one less Obfuscate character). Also, adding an additional Auspex clan is good in my book as it supports the inspection system and its always fun to find stuff.



(I did write this from work, so no precious 1.3 testing time has been wasted in this process )

My eyes are burning after this message!

I love your enthusiasm Kyoden, and you've obviously put some thought into this. I have to agree with you, I really miss Dominate as a discipline, it was one of the funnest disciplines in Bloodlines. Unfortunately, you know we can't add anymore disciplines to the game, we can only replace one. If that were the case, which discipline would we remove to make room for Dominate?

You do know Serpentis was Dominate's replacement right? And can be used in dialogue just like Dominate?

How many disciplines does Bloodlines allow?

kyoden wrote:

How many disciplines does Bloodlines allow?

However many there are currently.

Auspex
Potence
Fortitude
Presence
Obfuscate
Celerity
Obeah
Thanatosis
Serpentis
Daimoinon
Quietus

I think that's it. So 11.

Plus bloodbuff and bloodheal. So it's 13.

What happens to disciplines NPCs have, but that are not in the game any more? (Sheriff and Animalism for example)

kyoden wrote:

What happens to disciplines NPCs have, but that are not in the game any more? (Sheriff and Animalism for example)

That only happens in the cutscene. And since the particles are not removed...

Childe of Malkav wrote:

That only happens in the cutscene. And since the particles are not removed...

Correct, those aren't really disciplines they're using. It's just scripted scenes using particles and what not that I left alone in the game. The wolf summoning power was scrapped in CE 1.2 but the Sheriff still used it in the cut scene.

Sorry, forgot to add Blood Buff and Blood Heal, so 13 disciplines in total. If we were to remove 1 of these disciplines, we could make room for Dominate. In fact, if we removed 2 of them, we could add Chimestry for a Ravnos player, or Obtenebration for a Lasombra, or whatever we liked really. I wouldn't mind adding Animalism back in so we could have Old Clan Tzimisce.

Actually, I thought about it on the way to work and realized that we can't change the clans. We'd have to re-record Akeem's dialogue on clan explanation, and Scarecrow has been long gone for years now.

How I wish you guys would let me change to the Warriors of Set and Warrior Caste Assamites. I hate you all!

Zer0Morph wrote:

Actually, I thought about it on the way to work and realized that we can't change the clans. We'd have to re-record Akeem's dialogue on clan explanation, and Scarecrow has been long gone for years now.

How I wish you guys would let me change to the Warriors of Set and Warrior Caste Assamites. I hate you all!

Potence is boring. Any ghoul has that.

But if you remove bloodbuff or bloodheal and bring the Malks back, I'd even accept dominate malks to make Kyoden happy, you can create your Warriors of Set.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Potence is boring. Any ghoul has that.

Not to me, I love it. Potence and Fortitude are my 2 favorite disciplines, I can't explain why but I love them.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Potence is boring. Any ghoul has that.

Not to me, I love it. Potence and Fortitude are my 2 favorite disciplines,  I can't explain why but I love them.

That's because you are a "head first through the wall" Brujah. I, on the other hand, am the more subtle type: creep up on them, and then bring the house down.

IMO, there are 5 types of gameplay avaiable.

Ranged, with firearms;
Magic, using disciplines;
Dialogue/peaceful, just skipping the combat;
Stealth, skipping combat while silentkilling;
And MELEE, where you head-on with potence, fortitude, auspex (WITS raises defense, +reveal hidden enemies), blood buff and blood heal, and hell on those stand on your path!!!

Childe of Malkav wrote:

But if you remove bloodbuff or bloodheal and bring the Malks back, I'd even accept dominate malks to make Kyoden happy, you can create your Warriors of Set.

Which clan would we replace? I wouldn't mind ditching BloodBuff but we need to keep BloodHeal.

Ishtary Hmm, but your cel/for combo is gone then. To me both Laibon clans seem shallow. They do serve a purpose though if someone wants a more combat oriented char.

Edit: You could always add Fortitude etc as additional off disciplines which cost x8 to level up.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

But if you remove bloodbuff or bloodheal and bring the Malks back, I'd even accept dominate malks to make Kyoden happy, you can create your Warriors of Set.

Which clan would we replace? I wouldn't mind ditching BloodBuff but we need to keep BloodHeal.

Noooo, don't ditch Blood Buff! I love the fact that I can augment my physical attributes with blood, just like in the p&p game. It's a bland vanilla discipline, yeah, but I like that all clans have access to it because it's such a basic vampiric ability. It's that little bit extra power that vampires have in comparison to humans.

kyoden wrote:

Ishtary Hmm, but your cel/for combo is gone then. To me both Laibon clans seem shallow. They do serve a purpose though if someone wants a more combat oriented char.

I actually love playing as the Ishtarri, mostly for the Auspex/Fortitude combo. I'd like Osebo more if they weren't so angry and frenzied all the time. I love Potence, but I hate frenzying.

Eliza wrote:

Noooo, don't ditch Blood Buff!  I love the fact that I can augment my physical attributes with blood, just like in the p&p game. It's a bland vanilla discipline, yeah, but I like that all clans have access to it because it's such a basic vampiric ability. It's that little bit extra power that vampires have in comparison to humans.

Well, we can't have any new clans anyways because I can't revoice Akeem since Scarecrow disappeared. So you're in luck.

Auspex? I hate auspex. I can't use it. I see targets where I can't shoot them, and that's only the beginning of my problems.
And if I have celerity, what do I need fortitude for? I can outrun the bad guys and their bullets.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Auspex? I hate auspex. I can't use it. I see targets where I can't shoot them, and that's only the beginning of my problems.
And if I have celerity, what do I need fortitude for? I can outrun the bad guys and their bullets.

You know Auspex gives you a temporary boost to Intelligence, which gives you a temporary boost to Hacking right? It's like Bloodbuff for the mind. It has many uses.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Auspex? I hate auspex. I can't use it. I see targets where I can't shoot them, and that's only the beginning of my problems.
And if I have celerity, what do I need fortitude for? I can outrun the bad guys and their bullets.

You know Auspex gives you a temporary boost to Intelligence, which gives you a temporary boost to Hacking right? It's like Bloodbuff for the mind. It has many uses.

Yep, the hacking bonus is the only effect that isn't completely useless. But for 1 dot in auspex I can buy two in hacking. Or one and a half in Intelligence. And that also helps with research.
And as I said, in combat I can't use it because it disturbs me.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Auspex? I hate auspex. I can't use it. I see targets where I can't shoot them, and that's only the beginning of my problems.
And if I have celerity, what do I need fortitude for? I can outrun the bad guys and their bullets.

You know Auspex gives you a temporary boost to Intelligence, which gives you a temporary boost to Hacking right? It's like Bloodbuff for the mind. It has many uses.

Yep, the hacking bonus is the only effect that isn't completely useless. But for 1 dot in auspex I can buy two in hacking. Or one and a half in Intelligence. And that also helps with research.
And as I said, in combat I can't use it because it disturbs me.

But it jacks up your Ranged Combat damage though.

Just to annoy Zer0. I usually use Auspex oder Blood Buff to min max easily

Zer0morph wrote:

But it jacks up your Ranged Combat damage though.

Yes, but I can't target, because the visual effects disturb me.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Auspex? I hate auspex. I can't use it. I see targets where I can't shoot them, and that's only the beginning of my problems.
And if I have celerity, what do I need fortitude for? I can outrun the bad guys and their bullets.

You can't dodge bullets from behind, or counter attacks, or multiple attackers if you permit them to appear.

Auspex is great for campering. You know where the target is and if he's moving. Now you know if he's moving out of cover, or if he's reloading and it's time for you to run towards him. Not to mention the ranged damage you get.