Thoughts about Heather

When you find Heather in the SM clinic, she's more dead than alive (internal bleeding, critical condition according to Doc Malcolms computer). So, if you make her a ghoul and she gets up and walks away fully recovered, without even seeing a doctor, that would be a medical miracle.
I really think, that should count as a masquerade violation, especially if you make her calling for the nurse and security by telling her too much or letting her see your nice Nosferatu face .

So I think you should get the choice:
- gain humanity, but get a masquerade violation for saving her, or
- loose humanity, but get a masquerade redemption for letting her die.

What do you think?

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A masquerade redemption implies that she violated the masquerade in some way prior.

"GIRL DIES KNOWNING NOTHING ABOUT VAMPIRES" isn't really redemption material - UNLESS you add something in to it. Even a small change in her medical report claiming she is delusional and insinuating beasts of the night are ravaging her insides - perhaps a researchable route where her room is locked until you discover something unnatural has occured to her. Could add a nice little encounter later on perhaps?

However - another option perhaps - In the vanilla game the patient Malcolm is with has a vampiric aura. The one he refuses to leave - perhaps if you give Heather some blood, THEN tell Malcolm a miracle has occured he could leave the room - talk to the guy on the table, he just gives a "..." and you can perhaps bribe him, or tell him he's free to go. Fade to black later and he's gone from the room - that could easily be worth the redemption point

Maybe a little news clip about the Doctor With Healing Hands popping up a bit later

I never checked that guys aura

Besides the main reason I started this thread is, that it would cause considerable suspicion if someone with Heather's injuries just gets up and walks away. So, I think ghouling her should be a masquerade violation.
On the other hand, I think knowing that you can save her, and letting her die anyway to protect the masquerade, should cost humanity.

When I think about it, there are some questionable redemptions in the game: What does Patty do if you resuaded her to leave LA?
Can Julius really keep his mouth shut if you let him go? Is it worth a redemption to keep Samantha from making her call?

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I agree ghouling should be a violation, and letting her die should perhaps have a penalty - as long as you already KNOW about ghouling. You can't do what you don't know. But I believe that was alterred in CE already to prevent you ghouling without the information unclocked.

Patty leaving LA is a redemption as the violations take into account: The LOCAL area, the local vampire populace. People with less attachment to Patty in wherever you send her are more likely to take a different view on her - maybe killing her as a trouble maker, maybe ghouling her to another regent, either way - she is out of the picture and less likely to make people scrutinise the local population for anything unusual.

Julius will be driven out wherever he goes, he's a caitiff, a nobody, he is also presumed dead - you gain kudos for being the one to do what must be done without bloodying your hands with the death of a mostly harmless individual who is so terrified of losing what little life he has he would probably not dare open his mouth to utter a stuttered line of blasphemous truth ever again.

Samantha is kept quiet, overcome by grief, mental instability or some other measure, she presumes you to be her long lost friend, as a newly dead you can be certain family are looking out for you, they want to find you, to help you. If Samantha voices she has seen you and you need help you can pretty much assume there is going to be a redoubled attempt, possibly a reward - for your whereabouts. Convincing her otherwise is more likely to bring a measure of closure and maybe make her seek help, rather than keep looking for you. You turned a revealing and vulnerable situation into a situation which will stop more prying.

There shouldn't be good or bad choices in this game. Every choice the character make, comes with consequences.
Humanity gain + Ghoul and Masquerade Violation or Humanity Loss + Masquerade Redemption and the feeling that you are a bad ass
That sounds fair.

Hmmm.... Let me contemplate this...

Hm, I want to ask you about a thought that occured to me today.
If you are playing a Tremere and you made the chantry your haven and Heather is told to stay indoors, is the Sabbat going to kidnap her ? They shouldn't be able to touch her as long as she is in the chantry, should they?

She could easily be tricked though, or leave believing you're in danger. She loves you more than her life, literally, she would die for you and would rather be with you if she felt you were in danger than following direct orders to sit in a flat while you risk your unlife.

Yeah, that makes sense

Okay, this won't ever happen in the game, but let's say..

You feed Heather 2 times and instead of giving her the "final feed" wich she would really lose any free will and be some love maniac for you (less said) or even better, the second feed (after the first time she still have reactions of her true self before be lose control) you tell her to get out of your life but don't kill her..she would know of vampire's since you told her already and with time would regain control of her life ( I haven't seen around anything about ghouls losing memory), that would be a Masquerade Violation(wich makes me remember,there is Julius at the beach and some guy in Pisha's lair that also count as Masquerade Violation but you can let then free since intimidate then).


But if memory doesn't fails, the Prince is aware of PC having a ghoul, when I played without patchs I had her living with me in Santa Monica (was doing Downtown quests already), when i received the new Raven, Lacroix told that they moved my belongs to the new place and my "companion". So, uh..we would be screwed kicking her anyway lol