New to the game: questions/comments

Hi all, I am Kelben, French expatriated to the Philippines for 3 years already, 24, master in building equipment and services and now working in wastewater. I played the first opus of this sadly short series, more action oriented than roleplay but I found it nicely equilibrated, offering difficulty all along (the first par mainly).

I finally downloaded yesterday VTMB, I always wanted to play it but... well... simply did not. I played through last night chapter 1 and a part of chapter 2. I download the game with the true patch from tessmage.com (was bundled). I am quite experimented in RPG but chose the questions: Toreador, and allow automatic distribution of skill points (some sort of hand-off game first).

In terms of life-time what would be your recommendations?
- I have this patch from patches-scroll that you integrate into your own mode. Is it better in Basic version than this true-patch?
- My plan would either be to finish my game first with this true patch and so on. Then switch to the patches scroll patch in Plus version. Finally go for your mod. Won't I get bored along the road?

When I look at your changelog, I would have been in deep problems in the haunted hotel if my blood was running low with the time... Cause it took me a little time to go through. Same, I spent so long finding out where to put the damn bomb in the store house of the Sabbat... Hopefully (and I guess this is a bug) the enemies in the stairs leading to the offices did not stop repopping... And then I had time to try feeding on them.

Hi Kelben, if you install Camarilla Edition you must install it in a specific way:
1) The Bloodlines game itself
2) The official patch
3) CE 1.3, this includes all the unofficial patches it is compatible with - installing anything else will damage gameplay.

If you have trouble with blood running low there are rats you can feed off and you can always stock up on blood packs before heading to the house.
(I wouldn't play with automatic skill distribution though)

Thanks for the installation guide line.
Yes I know for the auto skill option was to make a first game completely hands off.
Yeah well, the haunted hotel was just an example. Now that I've been through once, the second time would be far much easier

EDIT 1: I thought the official pack v 1.2 was bundled?

Hi, welcome to CE!

You don't need the official patch, it's included in Wesps patches. At least for the 6.x versions; and nearly all of the important mods are built on one of these.

I don't know where you got your game bundled with Tess' so called "true patch". I've never checked that thing out, so I can't tell you if it does any harm. Better don't install it if you want to use Wesps patch or one of the major mods.

If you want to try different mods, I'd suggest you prepare your system for multiple installations:

-deinstall your current game, and clean up.
-install the game without any patches/mods
-make a copy of this installation for every patch/mod you like to try. If you like it, keep it. Else you can just throw it away and test something new.

Now have fun duckling
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Thanks Childe,

It comes from quite a strange site whose specialty is to make nude quite explicit skins of models in RPG game This came as a bundle with the game iso. Quite crazy

Anyway, thanks for the welcoming words and that is just the right time since yesterday I chose to shortcut all the formalities, make a clean install and patch-it up with your mod. So here I am now playing on Camarilla. So far, so good

I would love next game to be with the mod of ZeroMorph if it could be updated so that to integrate Camarilla 3. Why don't you guys join efforts? (Sorry for the annoying questions... )

For your info, CE is originally Zer0s project. He did most of the work up to version 1.2. I only did some scripting help and beta testing for 1.2, and took over for 1.3 because he wanted to do something different for a time. But we still keep contact, and if we think some aspects should go into both mods, that will happen.

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Kelban,

Welcome to the CE site and I hope you enjoy playing CE 1.3. Childe of Malkav and I worked very hard on getting this to where it is so I really appreciate you taking the time to check it out.

I handed over the CE project after version 1.2 was released to Childe of Malkav. He expressed a strong interest in continueing CE and had more than enough modding knowledge to create even more fun and exciting things to do in. While he continues supporting CE I have moved operations to a different Bloodlines mod called "The Final Nights".

TFN is built on top of CE 1.2 and continues the series under a new name because it allows you to play 7 brand new clans along with 5 new disciplines. It follows the same feeling that CE gives but with the different clans, new dialogue options, environment/building changes, new NPCs, and new quests.

So I guess in essence, TFN is the little brother to CE giving us more flexibility to invent new "Stuff" without fear of "Violating the Masquerade", lol.

Zer0Morph,

The pleasure is for me to try it out. I play other heavy modded games (Hearts of Iron or Arsenal of democracy now) and I know how much work is involved in developing such nice implementation from whatever base game.

Okay I see what you mean. I visited TFN forum by the way (I sneaked in, not subscribing... hmmmm... yet!) and I thought the new clans were playable on top of the existing ones while they are just replaced. A new player like me (I reached chapter 3, Yes!) still has to go through several clans before really getting bored by CE and then switch to TFN... I might need parallel installations

Now a little feedback on my game:
- Santa Monica: I thought you can give back her stuff to Lily after solving the thin-blood quest but I did not get any such option. Supposedly it might bring you some humanity.
- Get a quest by email (I did not check faithfully until Heather joined my flat) from Bertram Tung wanting to prevent a certain picture to be accessible by the media. I thought that corresponded very precisely with the one you can get in Skyeline apartments Downtown (1st floor I think) with this reporter you scare out of the disaffected hospital (see quest with the cannibalist vampire with intriguing eyes). Later on I received another email announcing I failed the quest.
- I did not found out how to get the bonus scholarship from Beckett.

Other comments:
- I really like quests such as the haunted ocean hotel, it really get scared the first time, I mean, surprised and stressed out. Another interesting is the Grout Manor, less impressive though until it takes fire and you have enemies coming in your back.
- Is it complicated to add musics? While you are roaming in the different hubs, I think possibilities are quite large compared to specific locations which required specific sound tracks to create the ambiance... I like Asian Dub Foundation which made Fortress Europe for Need for Speed for instance, nice band. I can think of some other specific tracks, I am not into ghotic movements though more reggae, dub...

Hi,
I'll try to answer your questions / comments:

- For Lillys stuff, I don't know what happened. Usually if you have all her belongings (including the bailbond), you get the option to give it back. But there is possibly a random error. I remember not getting this option in one or two of my games, too. Since it's a feature of the unofficial patch and not CE specific, I can't tell you if it gets blocked if you were unfriendly to her when you released her from the blood bank.
- O.K. In the Bertram quest I probably didn't make it clear enough, that there is a time limit for successfully ending the quest. You have to do it before you go to the museum. I'll keep that in mind and in future versions the time limit will be more explicit. You are right about the photo. Just put it in the mailbox after you found it and leave the building (as with the werewolf blood and the later mailbox quests). Then the questlog will update and tell you to check your email, and you get the second half of this quest.
- For the bonus from Beckett, you have to talk him through all the dialogue options in the museum. You have to discuss all topics until you get the stats increased message.

- Yep the haunted hotel and the Grout mansion are great levels. Btw, did you put on a straitjacket and sit through all the tapes
- for the music, that should be possible, but I'll have to look it up and tell you later.

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Thanks for the feedback

I thought of the mailbox last night after posting. The time limit is just fine to me. No reason to drag your feet on this one, it is an easy one. Just my bad I did not think of the mail box earlier. I visited Bertram instead (thought that would be straightforward) in his disaffected oil tank. Could it be easily modded into an alternative option to complete the quest? It would make sense.

I played all the tapes, did not pay a super attention to them though. My bad again... But let us say it will give more interest to my next walk-through.

Okay for the music, just dropped an idea here. I think someone mentioned this already in another thread.

About visiting Bertram for the quest, I'd have preffered to do it that way, but then I'd need new dialogue, and where do I get a voice actor who sounds convincingly enough like the original one?

And for the tapes, it's really hard to listen to this monotonous voice all the time, and you probably only get an insight out of them if you know how the story developes further on.

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Okay yes, if voiced dialogs are an issue then only emails and mail box are left as an option to create new quests right?

At least new voiced dialogue from existing npcs is an issue. The main problem is not the voice files themselves, but to get a voice actor who sounds similar enough to the original ones. Or we have to find someone who would rerecord the whole dialogue for the character.

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And have a good microphone

A good microphone, a decent place to actually RECORD, a pop screen, preferably a slide of glass, Audacity or similar sound manipulating software to ensure coherency of recordings, a piece of voice manipulating software to cover multiple characters and ensure congruence, isn't altogether THAT hard, just takes up a fair bit of space and possibly costly software.

... and you need to be talanted

Hi guys (and girls?), I have been busy in Singapore so my game progression slew down dramatically. But I'm back now and finishing the new secondary quests available at the end of Chapter 3.

Here we go for more comments/questions:
- I did the cemetery job for Romero (both of them actually), I have a walk-through quite okay but here is the problem, I handled the zombies and chose to get his gun because I thought by satisfying his sexual aspiration later on I could get the firearms bonus. The thing is I did not get such options in the following dialogs and now the door is locked. Anyway, stupid me to get his gun that becomes obsolete shortly afterward.
- The way the inventory is handled is quite weird, like the limited space for the range weapon. Let us go back to the Remington case. My weapon inventory was full when about to buy the Squad upgraded version of the Remington to Mercurio. I then get rid of the model from Romero and get the new one, good surprise, ammunition are carried over. Then in my little head I thought I could sell this old crappy colt from the police and get the brand new Anaconda... But no ammo carry over this time. Is it possible to know this in advance?
- I have several variations from my walk-through to what is going on in-game regarding the poster quests. Well, nothing to do with you. I am just frustrated at the moment because my inventory get full (I was not selling anything) while looking for the Nosferatu and I dropped the reports now required for VV poster somewhere in the sewers... Stupid me... So now I remember I must have dropped them nearby the corpse with the access card... I'm good for a long exploration hehehe. Hopefully through the sewer I can reach directly the latest part of this long trip.

Another very important question (to me at least but I met for many people here): Is there work going on regarding a version 1.4 ?

You can always store stuff in your apartment if you're unwilling to sell stuff. Some things really are useless though...

Hi, I'll try to answer your questions.

Well fisrt of all, a walkthroug is usually intended for the basic game. The mods add or change some stuff, so you can't depend on it. Even if you only install Wesps plus patches, and no mods the walkthrough will be inaccurate.

For the cemetary, you only get the rewads once, even if you do the zombie shooting quest and get him a hooker (or do the job yourself). I'm not sure about the xp right now, but money, the gun, or training is one time only. Depending on your walkthroug it should either state that the quests are one or the other, or it should mention that you can do both, but only get one reward.

There should be a limitation to the amount of things you can carry in every game. OK I don't say the way vampire solved this problem is the best way. And one problem is that you are not told how it is handled in the game manual. I think most modders know the game too well, so they don't think of puting this info into their manuals. (I never thought about it)

For the ammo, I can tell you, the only weapons that use the same ammo are the two remingtons. But ammo without a gun doesn't take up a weapon slot, so it doesn't hurt. And if you get that type of gun again later all your ammo is there again. Doesn't really make sense, but that's the way it's programmed.

Well for the poster quest in CE 1.3 you can throw away all your walkthroughs. I have changed it quite a bit to get items free for other things. Well for your items there. When you use the second entry from the sewers, you have to do the long jump through that big fan, the maze (get the items), and the jump into the underground lake. If that is too much for you or you don't find the items, contact me via pm, and I'll give you the names and commands to respawn them via console.

Now for the most important question of them all: I'm planning to get a new version out, but I don't have any schedule yet. And frankly I'm a bit out of ideas what to do with CE. What i intend to do is, upgrading to the 7.0 version of wesps patches, including most of the plus features, and revising the email college. More I can't say for sure. And I'm on double shifts for modding right now. I agreed to help Zer0 with scripting for his new mod. Some features of that may go into future versions of CE as well.
So what i can say right now is: Yes, there will be a CE1.4, but no it won't have much new things.

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Thanks a lot Childe, these are all great inputs:
- Walkthrough: No problem about it, you have nothing to do with it, I will update it manually as I progress in the game.
- Cemetery: Again, I updated my walkthrough to don't get caught again. I did first the zombies, get the gun, then get him a girl. Get some money and XP. The only issue was my walkthrough being not clear. Now it is
- Inventory: Yes, my bad again if I was stockpiling all watches rings and medicines/drugs I came upon in case they might be of some use later on. I found back one of the report, had the other in my inventory but the very first one in fact, I cannot put a hand on it. Thanks for the proposition of support but I think I will just keep this for my next game I'll have some surprises then this way.
- Ammo: Okay, understood.
- CE: No shame in putting a final point to this mod since as far as I could see, it is pretty much finalized. You can release little fixes as Wesps is progressing with his patches. I like the idea of you focusing on Zer0 mod actually hehehe I had a look yesterday on the site and I like the refitting of Santa Monica area in terms of graphic and the other very good ideas there.

Question: Is Zer0 inspired by the pen & papers mod? I like Final Night mod but I am quite sad you cannot then play the original clans. It seems P&P mod succeeded in implementing much more playable clans. I could find some skins for the other clans here:
http://www.vampire-network.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=12
It is in French but I can help if need be, no problem with that.
I am pretty sure the people involved in P&P mod would not see any objections at you guys reusing their work. It seems like P&P mod is pretty much abandoned anyway. What I am trying to say (and I did already, sorry...) is that you could combine both CE and FN... One project, more people to work on it, while the CE base would be finalized, the FN project would develop on top of it. CE would still benefit from all the new graphic and such implementations.

Okay out! hehehe

Kelben,

It’s funny you mention the P&P mod by Offkorn because it was the disappointment that I felt when I played it that spawned the idea of The Final Nights. When I played the P&P mod it said that you could play all of these different clans and disciplines with new player models and I was super pumped! Then when I sat down to play it I found out that the new clans weren’t new clans at all, no new dialogues, just the same old clans with different names and clan icons. The models weren’t new, they were re-used NPCs that were reskinned that didn’t properly animate in the character sheet. No new disciplines either, the same ones just recycled and you were supposed to use your imagination to pretend they were the new ones. Telling someone that Protean is Serptentis, just use your imagination was flat out lame.

So when you say the P&P mod was successful at implementing much more playable clans is not true. You can’t play any new clans in P&P, only the same ol’ stuff recycled and renamed.

As far as playing the original clans, sure you can, it’s Camarilla Edition!  You see CE and TFN are meant to be a pair because TFN is built on CE 1.2 using the same rules. So when you play TFN, you will already be familiar with the rule changes, such as how healing is done, the blood timer, the extra 2 upgradable disciplines (Blood Heal and Blood Buff), the Persuasion/Intimidation/Seduction changes, etc…

I have made, and will continue making many graphical changes to the hubs, buildings both interior and exterior, and as I go through and make these changes in TFN, Childe of Malkav is more than welcome to port them over to CE to keep consistency. One thing that TFN won’t have is the email college which I know has really changed the mechanics and strategy for CE, but other than that the two mods should be relatively similar in gameplay, of course with different quests and clans.

Well, my bad then, I did not even try it, just read extensively about it.

Okay then there is no way around having 2 installs, one with CE, one with TFN...

No college okay, I have not enough experience to judge the balance issue.

I am getting to the end of the game, I missed the famous blade unless it is available only after the werewolf (what a pain this one). Else for toreadors, presence really comes in handy when comes the heavily populated last missions of the game.

EDIT: I left out the stealthy quests of Imalia (in the apartment) and I stopped at the Hub #3, I find it very difficult to sneak through these levels, is it "normal"?

Kelben wrote:

I left out the stealthy quests of Imalia (in the apartment) and I stopped at the Hub #3, I find it very difficult to sneak through these levels, is it "normal"?

i think this/these quests are specialized for the nosferatu clan

/and for malkavian clan since they can obfuscate too... btw why are they able to?! should be cut out from the CE next update if there will be this should be a unique nos-only discipline imo )

Thanks for the insight Nite.

Ya, what I would do is have 2 seperate installs, one for CE and one for TFN. That will get you the original 7 clans (modified for CE of course) and the new 7 clans (modified for TFN of course) and you can jump back and forth having 14 clans at your disposal.

That may not be the most desired way to have the game(s) setup but because the game engine limits us to 7 clans only thats the only way I see it possible.