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 Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction

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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:41 am

Hello in there.
Does Presence work on Blood Dolls like Serpentis will in TFN? It'd be nice if it did, it's the power of charm and emotion after all.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:13 pm

I would like to do something with presence in dialog. But only Dominate and Dementation can do this. I think, it's hard coded this way. Or no modder has found it yet.
Serpentis uses the old Dementation, that's the reason why you can use it in dialog.

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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:16 pm

Actually Presence in dialogue is technically possible, I did it in TFN for Obeah. The only thing is you wouldn't be able to have it show up as a different color or text in the dialogue like you have for Dominate and Dementation. But for the sound and particle effects, I got that working great for Obeah so I know it could be done for Presence.

If you don't mind the missing unique font then having Presence in dialogue can be done, but it would be ALOT of hard work.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:05 pm

Well, I do not notice a big difference between Dominate and Dementation options beside the usual Malkavian insanity font but imho that is a completely different matter.

The Dominate font would be perfectly fine since in a way Presence is a more subtle version of Dominate.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:43 pm

Would it be possible to have Presence count as extra points in Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance while active? I.E. If you have Presence 3 active, then all your social attributes are effectively 3 higher? Sort of like Blood Buff.


This would work well with the nature of presence. Dominate and Dementation are activated on the spot, for that particular target or group of targets. However, presence is a constant "glow" on the character that makes them mezmerizing to all that behold them.

This would make it more interesting as well, as you would be turning it on before important conversations, rather than just using it as a debuff aura during combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Problem is entering conversation switches off active Disciplines... Not like in PnP, I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:21 pm

Feral wrote:
Problem is entering conversation switches off active Disciplines... Not like in PnP, I know.

boooooooo Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:51 am

Really a pity since in P&P it's much more a tool for "social interactions" than anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:53 am

Well a video game is mostly combat based, it's normal they got the combat partof Presence Very Happy

Oh I'll start a Disciplines topic in the pen and paper section ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:54 am

I know I'm not a Giovanni, so I shouldn't reanimate old topics...
But recent developemants require it. Presence in dialog, along with sound and particles, including red text but with the Dementation font, is now part of the plus patch. It seems, all disciplines can be used, but they always appear in the dementation font, except for dominate. And that is limited to vclan 8 (player_ventrue). The patch mostly uses it as a substitute for level 1 dominate. Very much in the same way as Thaumaturgy is used to make level 1 dominate available for Tremere.
I think it should also allow for use as a bonus to the social dialog options. I'd say you can only use it as presence 1, no matter what your actual level is. And it can be used to substitute dominate 1, or add a bonus of 2 to seduction and intimidation, and +1 to persuasion.
I think this distinction is justified as presence is more an emotional than a rational effect on the npcs mind. And I think this way is better for game balance.
Opinions? (and fast please. Wesp has put the word out that he intends to release next week.)

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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:07 am

Great idea, add it asap.
But how could you add Disciplines to dialogue? As Dominate, OK. But to give Seduction bonus?
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:18 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Hello in there.

Am I the only one who actually pictured him leaning forward in his chair and saying this to his monitor?
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:29 am

Feral wrote:
Great idea, add it asap.
But how could you add Disciplines to dialogue? As Dominate, OK. But to give Seduction bonus?
That's actually quite easy: I'll handle it with the conditions for the reply line to turn up If the pc has presence and seduction of one or two less than the level necessary for the actual seduction line to turn up, the presence option is used. So you will see a presence line, and have to judge by the text if it's menat to be a replace for dominate, or a bonus to one of the social dialog skills. And of course, as with dominate or dementation, you will have to spend blood every time you use a presence reply. But I can't think about any dialog where you would need it more than once.
Same way as I use for different amounts of $ to turn up depending on your haggling feat.

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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:22 pm

Sounds really nice...
I will enjoy plaing it Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:27 pm

Voraxith wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Hello in there.

Am I the only one who actually pictured him leaning forward in his chair and saying this to his monitor?
complete with the Mandarin's voice.


On the topic: Presence in conversations sounds awesome Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:46 am

+1, always wanted to really fell the 'Majesty' i get with 5 dots Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Sounds good to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:18 pm

Latest update for Presence in dialogs: I have written a Python script to easily use Presence as a bonus for the social skills in dialogs. Complete with red text, bloodcost of 1 as it should be for Presence,and thanks to EntenSchreck with Presence sound and particles around the npc's head. Only trouble is, it seems all disciplines can be used in Dialog, but they all appear in the same fonts as Dementation, except for Dominate, which has the normal fonts, but is limited to vClan 8 (Player_Ventrue).
So now "all" it takes is setting up the exact rules, browsing through the files, and adding the apropriate lines, if there is enough space in the file...
Wesp has already included Presence as a substitute for level 1 Dominate in the latest version of the patch. I'm thinking of adding the requirement that the pc has level2 Presence to substitute Dominate 1. Of course it will still only cost 1 bloopoint per use.
For Presence as a substitute for Intimidation, Seduction, and Persuasion. For now I have scripted it to be an option, if your feat does not match the requirement, but your feat plus Presence (plus 1 in the case of intimidation and seduction) does. But I think that will make it unbalanced. So I think, I will take out the bonus, and perhaps also make it necessary that your feat value is at least half the required level. So for example, if Intimidate 7 is needed, a Brujah, Toreador, or Ventrue can also do it with 4 Intimidation, and at least 3 Presence. And if the character actually has the required feat, the Presence option does not appear any longer.
Any suggestions on this?

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Btw, why do I always get these ideas, when I'm about to make it ready for packing the installer?

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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:32 pm

Curse of Malkav.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Karavolos wrote:
Curse of Malkav.
That was very helpful. Thank you Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Anytime What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:01 pm

Unique Malkavian Derengement?

Seriously though, your balancing system seems to make sense.
We could live with the Dementation font, too.
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:32 pm

Feral wrote:
Unique Malkavian Derengement?
Nah, just the Malkavian Madness Network. Smile And as long as it continuous to make Malkav create new things, I don't mind it one bit!
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:43 pm

Feral wrote:
Unique Malkavian Derengement?

Seriously though, your balancing system seems to make sense.
We could live with the Dementation font, too.

Agreed.

You can always save stuff for 1.7 too.... I wanna play!
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PostSubject: Re: Presence, Blood Dolls, Seduction   Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:20 am

OK. It is decided. There will be Presence in the dialogs. The rules are like this: Presence in dialog will cost one blood per use (not per dialog). Brujah and Toreador can use as a substitute for Dominate 1. But they must have at least Presence 2 in order to do so. Any vampire who has Presence can use it as a bonus to persuasion, intimidation, or seduction. You need at least half the required feat-level, and enough Presence to "fill the gap". In addition, Brujah get a +1 Bonus for intimidate. Toreador and Ventrue don't get such a bonus, because they start with a bonus on Charisma or Appearance. And finally there is a general -1 for persuasion.
Prostitute and blooddoll dialogs don't get Presence options.

For the status, dominate is mostly implemented, thanks to Wesp, who has already done so for the patch. The Santa Monica blueblood dialog is completely rewritten to allow for all options. Some other dialogs also have options included, and I'm going to check for easy to implement ones in the other dialogs today.

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