a couple questions about VTMB

so the Sabbat are an organization kind of like the Camarilla, right? so is it made up of the same clans as the Camarilla?

and which clan is it that has the huge claw-hands, like most of the Sabbat ive seen so far have had?



also, are there any mods that make guns less useless? i know they arent meant to be that good against vampires, but it seems ridiculous for me to shoot someone twice in the face with a .38 and have it do less damage than a punch.

welcome

on how the Sabbat are organised i'm not sure but they are more of a cult i think, and some clans in the Sabbat like the Lasombra that are not in the Camarilla. The caln with the claws are Gangrel and on your problem involving guns, i have almost never had any problems with the guns. All you have to do is bring a knife or an other fun melee weapon

The Sabbat is a political sect/organization, unlike the Camarilla they believe in the end of the world and they want to fight against it. They do not respect the "traditions". Until the Camarilla existed, actually, it was pretty common to blood bound all your Childer so they'll serve your interests no matter what (like Nines explains "they sired for their plans and those childer sired for their own plans and etc."). The Anarch revolts (which lead to the creation of the Sabbat) killed their ancestors and antediluvians (or tried !), and broke the blood bounds to be free, with a rite called Vinculum (Vaulderie, which is basically blood bounding yourself to your "pack", so you won't be able to be manipulated by some methuselah).
It's very, very well organized, since there is a strict hierarchy to respect. But what most Camarilla see of the sabbat are the Mass-Embrace cannon fodder they sent in on suicide attacks (shovelheads !). But if they survive they are welcome into the Sabbat as a full member

So they are free, but they must obey their elders and their superiors ? Ya !
http://home.earthlink.net/~esasmor/blacklight/sabbat.htm read this

This little discussion here on white wolf's forums explains a little about sabbat organisation per se

It's composed of Lasombra (a clan who controls shadows, like the girls with their guns in the hotel), Tzimisce (a clan who crafts flesh and bone, create big huge disgusting ghouls, Andrei) and "antitribus". Antitribu are members of classical clans (Camarilla but also independent) who chose to align differently from their main clan. A Gangrel antitribu is a Gangrel who belongs to the sabbat and not the camarilla (while a Lasombra antitribu is a Lasombra that belongs to the Camarilla and not the Sabbat, or an Assamite antitribu can be either Camarilla or Sabbat, since the main clan is Independent -but when we say "Assamite antitribu", we're mostly speaking about a Sabbat Assamite-). In the Sabbat, there are two kinds of Gangrel (Country, with Animalism, Protean and Fortitude, and City, with Obfuscate, Protean and Celerity), so those Sabbat guys you see with claws are certainly one or the other.



As for the gun problem, maybe you don't have enough points in firearms + perception..

one other thing, in WoD i thought the only way to kill a vampire was to decapitate them or burn them. is that not so? in Bloodlines you can kill vampires by breaking their necks

Since it's a video game, Bloodlines takes a few liberties with the Pen and Paper (PnP) rules. In Vampire: the Masquerade (the rules Bloodlines is based on, also known as the 'Old World of Darkness'), you can die the Final Death by fire or anything else that causes 'aggravated' damage, such as sunlight, acid, werewolf claws or teeth, vampire teeth (and claws if you have the Protean discipline), and some attacks by other supernatural creatures. They still have to wear down all of your 'health levels', but if you are taken down to zero by aggravated damage, you are dead-dead-dead.

You can kill a vampire with normal damage, although it takes a lot more damage to do the job. Vampires are more resistant to Bashing damage (which includes bullet damage), so it's hard to kill them with that alone. Bullets do most of their damage with hydrostatic shock, which is bad for living tissue. Unliving tissue, not so much. Riddling them with bullets usually doesn't kill them, it just forces them into torpor -- unless you go into overkill (blowing their head off with a shotgun, squishing them under a 10-ton rock, etc.). Of course, if a vampire is in torpor, it is child's play to finish them off unless they have friends allies nearby.

Vamps are less resistant to Lethal damage (swords, knives, etc.) because it hampers their ability to move around... they can't go into shock, and they really don't bleed out, but cutting muscles and tendons will slow you down and quickly force you into torpor. But like Bashing damage, an excess of Lethal damage will kill even a vampire -- decapitation, falling into a wheat thresher, stuff like that. Falling damage is usually Bashing damage, but above a certain height it counts as Lethal damage, which is harder for vampires to 'soak', or resist. Any fall from 10 stories or above is about the same... you've reached terminal velocity. Depending on the surface, and how nice your storyteller is, you may only be in torpor after the fall... or they may determine that the fall was hard enough to bash your skull to bits, and thus kill you permanently.

So, to answer your question: No, a broken neck would probably not kill a vampire, although it might hurt them badly. It would kill ghouls though. The same goes for several of the other 'stealth' kills you see in Bloodlines... a sword through the heart, baseball bat to the head, etc. Now, the fire axe to the head might kill a vampire, or the bush hook to the neck if it severs it.

Rule of thumb -- reducing a vampire to a bloody pulp might not finish them off. But if you cut the bloody pulp into little chunks, or throw it on a bonfire, "That's not gonna grow back."

PGM,
I agree on the swords to the heart probably not killing Vamps. But if I had enough space to wield a sword in a stealth attempt I'd go for the neck anyways. And a katana or even a mass produced shin gunto should be sharp enough for decapitation. At least if wielded by kindred. A vamp might even be strong enough tu cut off the head with a knife, if the victim doesn't have Fortitude active.
Breaking the neck, or crushing the windpipe with the tire iron certainly wouldn't kill a vampire.

But as you said, it's a computer game based on VtM. So they have to take some liberties on the rules. Be it for the people who don't know the WoD so well, and just want to have fun. For the looks of it. Or whatever.

-

PGM1961 wrote:

Rule of thumb -- reducing a vampire to a bloody pulp might not finish them off. But if you cut the bloody pulp into little chunks, or throw it on a bonfire, "That's not gonna grow back."

Unless it is Tzimisce... Vicissitude grants certain advantages here.
A little brainstorming, maybe. Does anyone have an idea how to kill Tzimisce Antediluvian? I have read a bit and it seems [Tzimisce] was hacked to Final Death by Warrior Salubri, Diablerized by Lugoj... And it keeps coming back.

The Tzimisce are overpowered, as always

Feral wrote:

PGM1961 wrote:

Rule of thumb -- reducing a vampire to a bloody pulp might not finish them off. But if you cut the bloody pulp into little chunks, or throw it on a bonfire, "That's not gonna grow back."

Unless it is Tzimisce... Vicissitude grants certain advantages here.
A little brainstorming, maybe. Does anyone have an idea how to kill Tzimisce Antediluvian? I have read a bit and it seems [Tzimisce] was hacked to Final Death by Warrior Salubri, Diablerized by Lugoj... And it keeps coming back.

If you are able to reduce a Tzimisce to a bloody pulp, I'd say he is in torpor, and final death is only a little work (and maybe a match or two) away. Now, if the Tzimisce dissolves into a puddle of blood, don't start celebrating just yet. In fact, I hope his attackers brought lubrication, because they are about to be screwed. But if the Tzimisce is high enough to use Vicissitude 5 (Bloodform), they should have planned better anyway.

Tzimisce (the Antediluvian) just used Dominate to convince (almost) all of those present that he'd been diablerized by Lugoj, when in reality Lugoj was killed. Lambach Ruthven tried to tell his fellow Tzimisce that he'd seen this happen, but they think he's crazy. This is the story in the Tzimisce clanbook, anyway. Is it true? Depends on the Storyteller.

In the Clannovels ( yes, I'm a no-life, I know ) I have read that Dracon regrow the Eldest from the seed he planted in all his children, after he had been slain by Samiel and his pack. And that the seed, beaing part of the
[Tzimisce], allows him to return after Final Death, simply taking body of anyone who ever tasted Tzimisce blood. Including the Tremere and anyone who partook of Viniculum. So how do you kill that sweethart? Ah, to avoid confusion [Tzimisce] refers to Antediluvian, while Tzimisce to any of the clan.

On a sidenote; when [Tzimisce] finally awekens on Gehenna, he is said to consume everyone who bears his blood as he did with his first Childe, Gallod, consuming his essence from many miles distance. So doesn't that include eating all of the Tremere as well? Funny possibility

Feral wrote:

.... So doesn't that include eating all of the Tremere as well? Funny possibility

Oh, the Salubri would be so upset

-

The thing about Tzimisce (the guy)'s blood, is that it only affects if the Tzimisce were infected with Vicissitude.
It takes down only the Tremere who drank the potion made from the Tzimisce Elder they captured and the two apprentices it embraced before the three of them died.. But not the rest of the clan

So it includes Tremere the Founder and Inner Council's members, except the one who replaced Goratrix... Fremere would make a perfect host for [Tzimisce]. Imagine that: Vicissitude 9, Thaumaturgy 9 (nearly all known rituals and all the paths), Auspex 9, Dominate 9, most likely Disciplins "inherited" after Saulot around 9 as well... Nice concept to entertain. Especialy if you are to meet with that NPC
But wait, all the other Tremere were Embraced dy the ones created in the orginal ritual. So they carry the seed and Vicissitude infection all the same, even if they don't practice this Discipline. Quite obviously they don't, given Tremere attitude towards Tzimisce and fleshcrafting. But it doesn't go away on itself either.

Shut up it's magic
I do believe the only one "infected" with vicissitude is Tremere himself. A bunch of the others of the original inner council died, too.. actually they are barely named So the only ones we are sure they drank the potion are Tremere, Etrius, Goratrix and Meerlinda. The other today members of the inner council are younger.. Red Death cycle BS.

(This is why I hate clan novels, they are all about exceptions and "fuck the rules, it makes a great story".. why give points and sheets to things that shouldn't even have dots ! Brain is full of fuck)

Kastor, do wathn where you post! This is PnP section, not TFN/CE even.

WTF ?

You can post, but you have to post in the right places

What the Mistress says...
You want to post your impredions on TFN/CE? Go to either section of the forum, then Post Your Ideas and start a topic (there is a button for it). Simple as that and painless at it.

Kastor785 wrote:

Okay I won't comment anywhere anymore so prepare for more private messages than ever...

If anybody complains about being pestered by your pms, I'll do something about that.

-Forum Admin

I don't mind the PMs, except that whenever you PM me, I still have a hard time figuring out what you want from me. What's the question ? Why ? What do you want ? >_>

I think Kastor is a troll.

Karavolos wrote:

I think Kastor is a troll.

You mean, it hass no brainses, wantss to eat nasty little hobbitses, and turns to stone when the yellow eye openses?

gollum

A troll?

A troll.