Skyrim

Oh it would be very easy to just use BV's fix. Just a matter of "hiding" the skeleton file overwriting BV's in MO, and the problem is gone. But then every benefit from the other mod is gone - at least for the Vampire Lord. I just find it...interesting, that it is something the mod doesn't fix.

I can't tell if the problem is worse than one that the Werewolf has, which I don't know if there is a fix for. That being, that Werewolves cannot tear down spider webs. I wouldn't think this is an issue brought about by a mod, but I don't know.

Maxus Corvin wrote:

That being, that Werewolves cannot tear down spider webs. I wouldn't think this is an issue brought about by a mod, but I don't know.

No fix I know of. As for the Vampire Lord. Well, I play doggie...

Imma ctrl+c ctrl+v'ing some comments from others Empire x Stormcloak discussions since I'm rather lazy to write them all with my superior rulership of the english language.


-Abot the "Stormcloak Racism"

"They support Nordic culture, which makes sense in Skyrim. They don't seem to take issue with non-Nords who integrate as much as people make them out too.

Ulfric hates the Dunmer who have moved into his city. The Dunmer who refuse to integrate, come from a truly racist culture, and worship what are effectively demons to the Nords: Remember what Boethiah stands for. Would you want a bunch of racist individuals with a history of hating your people to suddenly move in to your town while actively practicing a religion that would endorse killing you all in your sleep? No, you wouldn't. If the Dunmer wish to be accepted they need to integrate to some extent.

The Khajiit? The caravans actually are all composed of criminals; talk to them for a minute or two in the game. They're all criminals and they all dislike Skyrim. Why in the world would Ulfric use what few resources he has to defend them? Non-Caravan Khajiit seem to be okay entering cities; I don't see any PCs unable to complete the main quest.

And the Argonians actually do have a psycic connection to the Hist. Note that so many of them got up out of the blue and returned to Black Marsh for the Oblivion Crisis.

The actions normally cited as horribly racist by Ulfric are nowhere near as bad as people say. He never actually DOES anything to support the statement that he's horribly racist. Are some Stormcloaks racist? Sure. But the Imperials constantly berate the Nords; even those who they work with.
The Empire is weaker than the sum of its parts. The Empire right now commands the might of both Cyrodil and High Rock, but can't deal with Skyrim, despite the fact that a good portion of Skyrim still supports the Empire?

The Empire is weak. The Kingdoms that would form in its wake following a collapse may well be stronger."


- Misc
" Yes, but Tullius and the Imperials who captured you had no problem executing you, even though you were not on the list, and unless you choose the "Nord" race, you most likely were obviously NOT a Stormcloak. The other Stormcloaks who were captured made no attempt to hide their identities. It seems to me the Empire -- which is supposed to stand for law and order -- is trampling on those very ideals.

Also, Ulfric killed High King Torygg in honorable combat according to Nord customs and law. His actions were 100% legal in this regard, and considering that this so-called 'High King of Skyrim' cannot even resist the Thu'um, much less use it himself, he has proven himself too weak to lead Skyrim through an age of crisis. Ulfric himself says that he liked Torygg, but he needed to do what he did.

The Empire conveniently forgets that Ulfirc, having killed Torygg in honorable combat, now has a legitimate claim to the throne of Skyrim, and yet they are willing to execute him in secret, in Helgen, along with his followers and anyone else they captured who was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- killing any witness to what is undoubtedly an illegal execution.

Ulfric may not be the most lovable guy, but he served the Empire for twenty years before realizing that the Empire was willing to spend the blood of the Nords at any cost, and yet they are not even allowed to worship Talos.

*What exactly is the Empire doing for Skyrim? *

The Empire capitulated to every single Thalmor demand to end the Great War; they are incapable of winning the next war -- which everyone knows is coming.

At least with a free Skyrim, that nation will no longer have to fill the ranks of the Imperial Legion with their best fighting men. Skyrim can now shore up its own defenses, make alliances with Hammerfell and keep the Thalmor at bay until Men are ready to take the attack to the Thalmor.

Keep in mind also that although Elves are long lived, but they are slow breeders: Ysgramor and his 500 managed to colonize Skyrim, and within a few centuries they and their descendants had wiped out the better part of the Falmer.

The Aldmeri Dominion would prefer to let the Empire and Skyrim bleed each other dry. Now that the war is over, both sides must come to terms. What's left of the Empire can make an alliance with Skyrim and turn their full attention to the Thalmor threat. Ulfric has said they plan to attack the Thalmor -- he has no interest in attacking the Empire.

Keep in mind also that Skyrim, now that it is independent, must still have commerce with the Empire. Even though High Rock is 'cut off' from Cyrodil, there is no reason to suppose that Ulfric, as High King, would not sign a treaty with the Empire to allow the passage of Imperial troops and materiel through Skyrim to High Rock.

Ulfric would of course tax the Empire for the right of transit through Skyrim, but as long as the Empire recognizes the independence of Skyrim, there is no reason to suppose that those nations will remain eternal enemies, especially since both sides are well aware that the Thalmor, not each other, are the true threat to human civilization in Tamriel. "

Jad.3 wrote:

ThePhilosopher wrote:

... but a Stormcloak victory would be a worse loss for the Thalmor than an Empire victory.

How so?
Seems logical, that the Thalmor are happiest when there's the civil war. But the second best option is the Stormcloak victory: The Empire divided, with the new faction being hostile to it - divide and conquer, and the conquest would only be a matter of timing (one nation against three, and Nords are idiots).
The worst option being the Empire vitory - united we stand.

Discuss.

Now you may once again bask in the glory of my eloquence

First, define "Hostile". The stormcloaks have no desire to attack the Empire or to conquer it's lands. For all the claims of Ulfric being an power-hungry egomaniacal, he seeks to become High King of Skyrim, not to be a new Talos and conquer all the world. Suppose the Empire accepts Skyrim's freedom and removes the Legion from the region. They won't be at each other's throats or bleeding one another. It is quite possible that Hammerfell, Skyrim and Cyrodill (and High Rock) make a non-aggression pact

Second, a bigger, more resourceful nation does not necessarily means a stronger one, or a more defensible one. A small nation with guerrilla tactics may be more successful in defending itself than a large nation who wants to use field armies. Remember that Hammerfell succeded in defeating the (weakened) Thalmor and pushing them back. Specially if the bigger nation has a failed / clunkier / more corrupt bureaucracy or rulership, which is the case of the Empire.

Third, with the Empire being forced to accept Thalmor "emissaries" in its lands, the Thalmor have access to a lot of intelligence and spy networks. Stormcloak Skyrim would interrogate and execute any Thalmor they could get their hands on, making the obtaining of intelligence much harder than it would on Empire Skyrim.

You can see that the White Gold Concordat was very well crafted to sow dissent upon the Empire and open a way for the Thalmor to gain intelligence on it: the only hope the Thalmor could have of winning a next Great War, if it happens before the elves have full capacity to restore themselves. With Empire and Skyrim tolerating one another quickly, and Thalmor intelligence being made difficult in skyrim, the elves lose all of the advantages from the peace pact.

I must admit you convinced me... And my character already joined the Legion...

Feral wrote:

I must admit you convinced me... And my character already joined the Legion...

My tongue can work wonders, babe.

Also, I have to add that even though I'm pro-Stormcloak, I do not think that the current Emperor is a weak one at all. He looks to me to be an accomplished general and appears to be an efficient, capable ruler. He retook the Imperial City and defeated the main Thalmor force in Cyrodill. However, the situation is one such that no one, no matter how capable he is, could prevent things from going the way they went.

The main problem with the Empire isn't it's Emperor, is the whole system that is failed. The only one that could unite all of Men again would either be the Last Dragonborn or Tiber Septim reborn.

So the Empire is like the EU: killed by it's own beaurocracy.

Feral wrote:

So the Empire is like the EU: killed by it's own beaurocracy.

I wanted to present a pro-Empire argument, but now I just have to be Stormcloak or never play it again. Thanks, Feral.

Jad.3 wrote:

Feral wrote:

So the Empire is like the EU: killed by it's own beaurocracy.

I wanted to present a pro-Empire argument, but now I just have to be Stormcloak or never play it again. Thanks, Feral.

You are welcome... I feel ya bro. I pains me too.

I did Season Unending to avoid killing Ulfric.

Now Alduin is dead and Main Quest finished.

My life feels empty and meaningless now.

@Feral: http://www.dex-rpg.com/

Anway.

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Lots.

Not gonna comment on copypasta. It was written by someone who was well informed and already picked his side; and I don't have nor will dedicate time to do the research (my brainspace for that is already occupied by vampires).

Hostility: Active military operations against the Empire. Has there been any attempt at negotiations (tell me)? Suppose Ulfric accepts the Empire, Empire accepts Ulfric as the High King. Everybody wins (except Thalmor)

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Second, a bigger, more resourceful nation does not necessarily means a stronger one, or a more defensible one.

Yes it does.
Nords are already employing guerilla tactics. We can meet small parties of Empire, Thalmor and Stormcloaks in Skyrim. Have you ever met a Nord party that would survive an encounter with other parties, because I have not.

I think I agree on the 'emissaries.' But would it be that difficult, for an instituition so well versed in bureaucracy (and espionage, when it existed that long), to feed the elves only what it wanted them to know? Would the Empire then still be incapable of winning the next war?

I'll write a proper post once I'm a little less busy IRL, but for now here's some source material for you all to read up on.

Link to an in-game book on the Great War: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Great_War_%28book%29

Ulfric and the events that lead to the Civil War: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ulfric_Stormcloak

Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

Alvor the blacksmith's dialogue concerning the banning of Talos worship and the Thalmor (I underlined the important part):

Quote :

"It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me."

Jad.3 wrote:

@Feral: http://www.dex-rpg.com/

Anway.

Thanks. Now I need time to live not work...

Furthermore, I think the Thalmor needs to be destroyed.

Agreed.
...could we, perhaps, say, that the Thalmor are the EU..? Or maybe the States..?

Jad.3 wrote:

Agreed.
...could we, perhaps, say, that the Thalmor are the EU..? Or maybe the States..?

More the EU. Both were modeled after the Nazi system. But wait, that post was already given to the Empire...
So, the Empire is like the EU and Thalmor like USSR. Happy?

Well they do stick their noses into other people's bussinesses, and they want to end the world!
Anyway, Sojuz nierushimyj respublik svobodnych splotila navieki Velikaja Rus!

Jad.3 wrote:

Well they do stick their noses into other people's bussinesses, and they want to end the world!
Anyway, Sojuz nierushimyj respublik svobodnych splotila navieki Velikaja Rus!

Just for the record. What you've written there doesn't mean something like "I want Putin as the next Führer", right?

Just for the record, I see 'führer' on the same level as Napoleon etc. And to answer your question, 1968. If you wish, we can discuss my political views in detail

Hey, to be honest, if I was an altmer I'd probably join the Thalmor too. I mean, you basically are working to achieve immortality and paradise, and you can kill a few mud-dwelling men in the process. Sounds both fun and practical



Also, nigga stole my souls

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Hey, to be honest, if I was an altmer I'd probably join the Thalmor too. I mean, you basically are working to achieve immortality and paradise, and you can kill a few mud-dwelling men in the process. Sounds both fun and practical



Also, nigga stole my souls

That's why Hitler won the elections... It sounds great. Practice gets fugly fast, especially when it turns out your great great grandma was Dunmer...

//for those having a slower day: Thalmor was modeled after Nazi Germany, Dunmer after the Jews...//

So that's why nobody likes the Dunmer'

As for my slow day, I don't get the picture still.

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Hey, to be honest, if I was an altmer I'd probably join the Thalmor too. I mean, you basically are working to achieve immortality and paradise, and you can kill a few mud-dwelling men in the process. Sounds both fun and practical

You just have to blow yourself up in the process

The cool insane Dragon Priest who wanted to screw Hermaeus Mora? Kinda nice guy. Of sorts...

I start a new playtrough: this time an asshole Dunmer with a love for magic. But still more Azura and Meridia worshiper than Beotiah and Molaq Bal. So again a Companion. Aaaand now I will intend to my home, as I smell as a wet dog

Dunmer was modelled after the Jews? Nigga you cray-cray

Dunmer come from a slave society divided into 5 houses, whose religion includes ancestor worship and three thieves of divine power. Before worshipping those three thieves, the Dunmer worshipped three demons who taught them to lie, to kill, and to give other elves the finger. One of the three thieves is a hermaphrodite warrior-poet armor in bug shells and who kills people with his/her dick.

Stop quoting the Old testament!

It's almost frightening how quickly a discussion about a game turned into discussion about politics. XD

Even though it's just in-game politics. Politics none the less.

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Dunmer was modelled after the Jews? Nigga you cray-cray

Dunmer come from a slave society divided into 5 houses, whose religion includes ancestor worship and three thieves of divine power. Before worshipping those three thieves, the Dunmer worshipped three demons who taught them to lie, to kill, and to give other elves the finger. One of the three thieves is a hermaphrodite warrior-poet armor in bug shells and who kills people with his/her dick.

Yeah...

A society who rejected many gods of their brethren (8 Divines) to wotship true gods (Daedra) who shoved them how to live, no stone tablets, though. Then they left Egypt, er, Summerset to cross the barren wastes and go to the mountains under prophet Veloth. Now they setteled in a desertous land and formed a society led by landlords, though some triebsmen remained. Then the priests overturned and reinterpreted the worship, so not the Daedra but them are worshipped (unlike the Rabbis...). Finally, a foreign Empire imposed king Helseth (Herod) who screwd things even further. Fortunately, Nerevarine was born and brought things to heel, overthroving the false Temple in the process (copy-paste New Testament...).

Do you want me to write more...?