Roleplaying VtM at the TCI board?

Hey there!
Some of you probably have read the discussion that ensued in the 'Given a choice, would you really want to be a vampire?' thread. It ended with the idea of a roleplaying subsection at our beloved TCI forum. To keep the thread wherein this idea originated clean, I invite you to discuss here - and also vote on the poll above.
I've been pretty excited about the idea of a subsection for VtM roleplay, but what counts is your opinion. Would anybody actually want to participate in this? Before the work really starts, we need to know if there will be enough people interested to play, and if there are players, we also need a few gals and/or guys to moderate the whole roleplay.
I've taken up responsibility to organize everything that concerns this idea (for now, at least), so if you have anything you terribly want to get rid off your chest, feel free to post it here or PM me.
'nuff said. Your turn now!

Greets,
El

I voted #2. I don't know that I'd actually participate as I am pretty addicted to photoshopz and starcraft 2 right now. Buuuuut

If you guys did do this, I could make Avatars for your characters much like I've posted in the fan fiction section, I'd love love love to do this. If this does get off the ground I'll try and participate, but not really sure that I can commit or not as I am a fickle creature. Even if I do not play, I most certainly will make avatars! (Most of the people I make them for currently are ungreatful anyway, so I'd much rather use the effort on you guys. lol.)


First thing I'll do if you get guys get this in motion is post a thread of my criteria for avatar applications! I am rather excited too ;p

I also voted #2... I think it's a great idea and I will definately read the posts on my spare time. Right now though I'm working on TFN and I owe the fans waiting for it, my full attention.

After TFN is another matter however...

Yeah. When my gaming slows down, cuz eventually I'll hit a wall and get frustrated haha. I'll be able to commit. But I am most interested in having something VtM related to edit for.

Eliza, it depends how you'll organize everything. I would love to participate but I've never played anything like this before. I've tried a RPG once but never on message boards.
If you decide to go for it, it will be of great help to make some guides for beginners, which rule books we are supposed to read and etc.
I'll watch this topic with interest.

I'd certainly give it a try. I'm not sure though, if I can keep it up. I've never tried playing a RPG on a forum. And my experience with the vampire p6p game is limited to one or two sessions about 15 years ago. Well, let's see what happens.
Eliza, if you need help moderating it, just ask.

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I've read vtm books, but never played. I'd might try one time, to see how it is like, but i won't commit much to it

I'd like to, but it really depends on the time commitment.

On the bright side, if time isn't a factor, I have RPed in VtM, and even RPed on message boards in a forum. So, I have the experience all set.

I voted #2, like most here; but now I'm wondering if I might want to get involved after all. Never played on a forum before, though (just PnP). I think I'll see how the rules look.

PS - Is there a way to roll dice on this forum, like there is on Planet-Vampire? Just curious. (I've seen it done on PV, but I don't know how it's done there either. I just see the results pop up when someone posts on the thread.)

Yeah, I can't wait to see what Eliza has in store for this message board. From the PM's shes been sending me it sounds like she's got it all figured out. She incredibly organized and has alot of fire to make this thing happen and fun for everyone. She even got me pumped up about it though I wasn't even planning on playing. I will definately watch the RPG sessions and read the posts, if I don't have to dedicate a ton of time into it then I will probably jump in after all.

Sounds cool, when would it start? I have no experience either but, depending on when does it start and how long it is supposed to last, I would be very interested... what about a messenger such as hotmail? or skype conference?

Phew, I hadn't expected that many messages overnight!

YamiRaziel:
Of course there will be guides for beginners. I'm a mentor for new players on a German RPG server and I've participated in a board RPG, too, so I think this won't be a problem at all. Well, I'll probably write down everything in loving detail, as always , but I'll make a summary, too.
And concerning rulebooks ... well, we'll see, I'm not sure myself. I've never actually played VtM (I was a kid when the oWoD was replaced by the nWoD). But there are others here that can say more than me about this topic, right?

Malkav:
Thanks, I think I'll really need the help, but I'd rather not rush into something that won't take place - although, as of now, it doesn't seem like the RPG is a hopeless endeavor.

ThePhilosopher:
It's great to hear you'll give it a try anyway. If it's not your cup of tea, nobody will have hard feelings because of it.

simison:
I don't think time is a factor that's going to matter much. Seeing as we're on really different time zones, we won't be able to have 'real-time' roleplays often - or at all. It'll be post-by-post with a preassigned order so there's no trouble. Well, if there are, say, three US players currently engaged in a play, said play can of course be faster than if it's same US players with some European folks, but it doesn't have to be.

PGM:
You caught me. No, seriously, I have no idea how the dice system can be implemented. If I were to have knowledge in scripting, I could probably create some random number calculator, but there's always the problem of players fudging their numbers. The moderators could use this theoretical calculator (or roll with real dice), but if the numbers are unfavorable, they might either fudge them or the players might get it wrong and start a fuss about it.
This is one problem that can be solved easily with trust (if we can find a calculator...). Well, it's up to the players. We can have them vote what they'd like to have implemented for the board game, and then it's what the majority wants.
Comments on this?

Zer0:
Yeah, you're right. I still feel so excited I think I'll probably eat one of my shoes soon. (Anyone got some ketchup for me?)
If you're all curious, I can post a rough layout of what I thought the subsection could look like - I'm being terribly vague, am I not? I want everything to be handled in favor for the players, so everyone who feels like it has a vote to cast on all decisions. Well, let's say most of all. If you don't like it, you don't use it, so why should anyone decide this alone?

Kelben:
It starts as soon as it's done. There's a lot of work to do before the character sheet creation will even be thought of, and I don't want to set a date that'll likely be wrong anyway.
But the plays can last as long as you want them to. And there will always, always, always be the possibility for a player to drop out of active gaming. Let's be serious - we all have a real life. We all don't want to get into real-life trouble for gaming too much.
As for a more concrete answer to the 'how long' question, it'll be an open-end sandbox. There will not be a ST. At least not if somebody isn't crazy enough to volunteer. (Is anybody crazy enough? I'm just curious. It would be a hell of a lot of work to translate a normal chronicle onto the PC screen.)
Well, but if some people want to, there can surely be our beloved VtM:B as a 'plot' to play, but there wouldn't be enough room for more than ... roughly estimated three players in it.
Concerning messengers - no roleplaying on those, I'm afraid. These plays won't be officially accepted into the board plays. If there's going to be a board for roleplaying, then you're going to have to play on it. There will also be an out-of-play area (or OOC, whatever you prefer to call it) to plan and talk about the play, but you can of course use other means to do this planning.

Much talk. (But hopefully not little sense. )
I can only say I love that there's been such a huge response to this thread only overnight. As it seems, there are a lot of 'casual gamers', but I expected this. It's good, really. That means the pace of the plays will be slower and thus less work for moderators.
Moderators? Yes, there'll need to be some. I would be happy to have three people for it, but that's optimistic, I think. If anybody wants to help, but not to play, I would appreciate support. I can't do all of it myself. I need someone who has experience with VtM - and (or?) someone with experience in roleplaying in general. If there are any volunteers, let me know. I promise I'll do as much work myself as possible, but I can't do it alone.
(Edit: Moderators can play, too. Of course! It's not like the mods will know any more than the players... since there's no ST, nobody knows more than the players. Open-end sandbox, remember?)

Anyway... let me know if you want the temporary layout for the subsection, and let me know what you think about the problem with the dice. Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?


(Sorry if there are any spelling/grammar mistakes in there, but I'm properly hyper right now. Whooohooo!)

For the other website I play at, we use another site for dice rolling. http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/

I've had no issues with it, registering is easy, and all dice rolls are saved for history. Another possible choice is http://sheetgen.dalines.net/auth

This site allows you to create an online character sheet and has its own dice roller, but I've never tested the roller.

So, if you don't mind us using a second site for rolling, here's a couple of candidates. I could ask around in my site to see if there are others. But if you are dead set on creating a roller app, then I really can't offer anything beyond moral support.

There are a few sites where you'll get the results and simultaneously they'll be emailed to the ST/GM/DM

I'm not sure how a pbp VTM game would work to be honest, most of the pbp games I've seen have ended badly, including players going back through threads and editing/deleting their posts if they don't like how people respond.

It seems a slower system I guess. I've been a player and ST for many years and have read most the material from revised and second edition as well as the other gamelines. Could probably participate until I can get a group together either playing and/or helping out the storyteller

this should be great lulz.

So is it official, is this a go? If so, I'll go make a critieria list for av submissions!

I didn't vote.

If it's just for the feeling of acting like a vampire and saying "lol I just emptied a virgin" and write a whole fanfic on "your" character, it's useless. Go watch some real porn if you want this kind of self masturbatory satisfaction


If it's for a real "campaign", with NPC and stuff to actually do, with a Game Master, sure, why not ! Roleplaying via forums to actually play a game is possible, as long as there are strict rules about the borders (if any player can decrete "oh there's this prostitute here, i'll drain her, and then I met this nosferatu guy who gives me..." just to make huge descriptions, see option number one), about what can the player describe himself, and what's up to the Narrator to decide.

I *could* be your GM if needed, as long as we decide a "setting" (city + npc). By we, of course, I mean you'd explain "Oh I'd like our characters to be in this city controled by Camarilla", but Primogens and Prince and politics of the actual city will fall on the Narrator (ShutUpItsMyWorld rule)
Remember I worked for White wolf a couple of years And I do have a psychologue as a fiancé, so creating a nice dynamic between the characters and the setting itself is quite easy


Dice ? Useless. Vampire is a narrative political and social game, it's up to the GM to determine if your actions succeed or don't (because a good GM knows the world where the PC has actions, so he's the only one able to determine if said npc can be affected or not). Dice are mostly used to determine luck and to enable the GM to decide between various possibilities (like the weather).
You want dice and damage count ? Dungeons and Werewolf are for you ^^

Charactersheets ? Yes, the basic Vampire one, but only to GM's eyes (political game = secrecy). And with ties to the backround (so backround first, then you'll read what's "commun knowledge", then you'll explain what do you want your character to be, then we'll find your sire and your basic BG). I mean, not much "of I'm just this overpowerfull Gangrel Scholar hangin' around from a city to another", that's just wrong.

Skype/MSN ? No, too much a pain in the ass, we are on about 3 continents + we have a life.

Anyway, sure, why not, I can help out if needed, even if English is not my main language, I'm no Allan Poe but as long as the ambiance is clear, that's more than enough

Your opener there is why I stopped rping online rofl. I still make avs for people. Still make avs for chars I don't play for the hell of it. But I don't participate anymore. Somewhere along the long people started losing their standards. In the golden era of rp you were respected if you had talent, vocabulary, and detail. Not based on who you know. Now? It's all about who you know, who's clique your in, and detail? description? No body wants anything over a laugable three lines long or they won't read it (in comparison to the pages of passion I used to put into my works). They don't want to roleplay anything fun, or inventive. No plots. No story. No intrigue. Nope. They only wanna rp their insipid little "Bella meets Edward" bullshit. That, or straight up cyber. Disgusting. Disheartening really.

This is realtime chat play mind you, timers, refreshing, html, all that jazz. Never done forum rp.

I mean if it's to call the Pink Telephone and say "uh I'm this Vampire and I'll bit you", I bet meetic has this option


Sure if it's a 3 page essay on how your character decides to enter the Elyseum bu the stairs or by the elevator, that's almost as useless. I do appreciate good descriptions, nice vocabulary and readibility (capital letters, people !), but it's a game, not a Prix Goncourt.
As you said, no plots, no story, no intrigue and no nothing = porn and erotic films.
And plots, intrigue and stuff only come if there is a Narrator (or at least someone playing the NPC).

You take that same three pages and actuallze the scene's ambiance, to bring it into existance and give the very nature of what is going on a psychological profile all its own tenaciously by degrees that could effortlessly and completely institute the composition of vehement adamant feelings with a wide range and variety into your reader so forcably that he or she cannot fathom resistance? You accomplish that? Then three pages is far from dribble.

Eliza,

It seems you've really struck a cord with these people and I think this could easily be a go. After reading all of the posts I personally am trying to figure out how you would pull this off without a Story Teller. As far as dice are concerned, the website that Simison posted seemed like a viable option. Claudia does have a point though when she said that ultimately it's up to the Story Teller to decide what can and can't be done. I think to make this thing actually happen you are going to have to set ground rules knowing that a few people may not agree with them.

You should formulate a plan, present that plan, then let the public make minor tweaks. If the public can't decide then you have to step in and make the decision on your own doing what you feel is best. Not everyone has agreed with my decisions regarding early CE and now TFN, and unless I'm overruled by the majority, my decisions stand, and I know I can't please EVERYONE so I don't even try anymore. Too much flexibility and freedom for players may cause the whole system to come crashing down. Of course you dont' want to be a dictator either though, find the balance which I'm sure you will.

I do still think a Story Teller is necessary but that's just my 2 cents, but remember you are still the leader with this so ultimately it's up to you how you want it handled.

Moahr, moahr, moahr... stuff to say.

simison:
Gee, thanks for the links. This is just what I thought of! Heaps of thanks!

8people:
Yeah, well, I don't want this to happen. There'll be a restriction to how long a post can be edited; after this time is over, no edits or it's going to be trouble. (Grammar and stuff is okay, and if the moderator approves it, there may be edits after the timeframe - with good reason, of course.) Strict, I know, but necessary; you're absolutely right considering this.
And your help, as long as you would be willing to give it, would be greatly appreciated, of course.

Rudest:
... Hell, yeah, why not, go for it. If I screw anything up, everyone is invited to go after my head and play basketball with it. (Chrm. No, not really. I like my head where it is, thanks.)

Claudia:
I didn't actually think anybody would try number one at this board. Now that you mentioned it, though, lemme tell you that I'm going to stick my head in a bucket if I see it. Stuff like this hurts. It's not multiplayer, it's singleplayer, if I may say so. Roleplaying is about multiplayer.
Can I make you sign a contract? No? Aww, too bad. Personally, I like, naah, I love the idea that you would actually act as the ST for the board game. Originally, I threw this possibility out of the window - it just seemed too much work for one person for a board game. Without wanting to hurt anybody, I can understand it if someone takes up responsibility for a game with friends, I'd do this, too, but I honestly can't imagine someone doing it for a group of strangers one knows only through a forum. Again, please don't take offense at this, I'm speaking of myself right now, and this doesn't mean I don't like you. It only means I wouldn't want to ruin my grades for you. Real life and stuff.
As with the character sheets, I would've done the same. Nobody actually wants to see the dots and this stuff, right? A description, a lovely picture by Rudest and the background story is what interests a player. The rest is only relevant for ST/GM/moderator/whathaveyounot. Sure, nobody can prevent the players from telling others how much dots they have in Dominate, but this isn't really going to help them, is it?

- No further comments on Claudia's and Rudest's posts, they said all that needs be said themselves -

Zer0:
I wasn't sure about dice myself. In all other RPGs I've played, there's no ST or somebody similar so the players themselves decide what happens to their own character, and the moderators only interfere if somebody violates this rule (or one of the other rules, but that's not the point).
Seeing how the debate went on further, I'm quite split up now. On the one hand, I want the players to have a say in their game. Without them, there is none, after all. On the other hand, it's really damn difficult to find a balance between responsibility for players and actual plot. I called it open-end sandbox because I only know it this way. I can only offer what I can imagine and create myself. But now that Claudia actually said she would take on the responsibility of a ST, I'm not sure anymore.
My problem is that I only have experience considering RPG, not VtM. That's more Claudia's and 8people's territory, as I think.

Okay. Okay, I gave it a thought, and I'm asking all those that have made their interest in playing known (and all those who haven't said anything yet) to give me another answer - preferably with a comment.
Open-end sandbox without a ST - or a complete chronicle told by a ST?
Mind you, if there's going to be the ST, I will put all my trust into this ST - preferrably Claudia, if she still feels like doing it by then - and that's about it. I'm definitely not going to interfer with the ST in any way. The ST controls the game, I'm just responsible for mechanics and stuff. (Actually, this sounds quite good to me. Heh.)

(Oh, and as a sidenote - the next day or so, I'm going to start setting up what I had in mind as a layout for the subsection. Comments on this will also be welcome. )

Claudia, completely agree.

I've had the misfortune of having a rollplayer in my group who made about seven dice rolls one after the other and saying "There, my first meeting with the prince should go well now."

STEP AWAY FROM THE DICE AND NOBODY WILL GET HURT!

Saying that I run a fun group via IRC for D&D 3.5 with three UK people like me and an aussie which gives us a little over three hours a week and they can all contact me inbetween sessions and if they do 'socials' inbetween games (purely social interaction and character development, no dice rolls or combat) they get bonus exp. Has never devolved into cybering but I think the fact most of us have known each other for years and everyone has a different sexual orientation helps with that :p

Eliza wrote:

Open-end sandbox without a ST - or a complete chronicle told by a ST?

Why not both?

There can be regions like elysium, the rack and personal havens where the Keeper or player is in charge and the players run it, while there is also say the Princes' region and specific areas where there needs to be more monitored gameplay.

Damnit I'm actually quite keen on this now

I must have been lucky b/c the only situations I ran into that were that dice heavy, was combat.

As for between those two choices, I can't help but recall my current DAV game. Yes, we have a ST who has overall control, but he encourages us to create out own plot points via our backgrounds and our choices. So, it's mostly ST-focus with a large dose of player-addition. However, that particular group is a very mature, very experienced bunch, and I'm not sure how well it would work here with these players. I can do either approach, but for the new guys & gals, it might be easiest if we started with a ST chronicle, like a tutorial from Bloodlines with Jack (or somebody else awesome enough) to lead the group until everybody finds their pacing.

Could make Mentor background compulsory for first time characters, then stuff can be taught via PMs and in different social settings where the mentor appears