Roleplaying VtM at the TCI board?

So which rulebooks should we read? We are going to play oWoD right?

I'm all for a storyteller campaign. This was what I first thought of, when I read about the idea of playing on the forum. Doing it like a real p&p group, just not at a common meeting, but with posts to teh forum.
Of course the players will have to have opportunities to make their own descisions and bring in their own ideas. So there must be enough freedom for the players to act out their characters, but the ST will have the last say. NO DISCUSSION ON THAT! And from the few things I know about the system, dice really are not so important.

And I really think the way of character creation Claudia described is the only valid one for Vampire. At least if you want to have a real roleplay.
This would cerainly be a load of work for the ST.
I'd like to try this out. But I could also imagine being some kind of assistant to the ST, handling NPCs and other background action.

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8people wrote:

Why not both?

There can be regions like elysium, the rack and personal havens where the Keeper or player is in charge and the players run it, while there is also say the Princes' region and specific areas where there needs to be more monitored gameplay.

Damnit I'm actually quite keen on this now

Wow, now THIS was a good idea! Me likey, and the more we talk like this the more I want in!

Is it possible to have more than one game going at once? I don't mean the same players running 2 campaigns, but several different games going on with different real life players and a different real life ST? We aren't just limited to 1 game at a time are we?

It would be very possible to have more than two games going at a time. The website where I frequent has over a dozen games going, covering most of the NWoD lines.

Eliza wrote:

Claudia:
I didn't actually think anybody would try number one at this board. Now that you mentioned it, though, lemme tell you that I'm going to stick my head in a bucket if I see it. Stuff like this hurts. It's not multiplayer, it's singleplayer, if I may say so. Roleplaying is about multiplayer.
Can I make you sign a contract? No? Aww, too bad. Personally, I like, naah, I love the idea that you would actually act as the ST for the board game. Originally, I threw this possibility out of the window - it just seemed too much work for one person for a board game. Without wanting to hurt anybody, I can understand it if someone takes up responsibility for a game with friends, I'd do this, too, but I honestly can't imagine someone doing it for a group of strangers one knows only through a forum. Again, please don't take offense at this, I'm speaking of myself right now, and this doesn't mean I don't like you. It only means I wouldn't want to ruin my grades for you. Real life and stuff.
As with the character sheets, I would've done the same. Nobody actually wants to see the dots and this stuff, right? A description, a lovely picture by Rudest and the background story is what interests a player. The rest is only relevant for ST/GM/moderator/whathaveyounot. Sure, nobody can prevent the players from telling others how much dots they have in Dominate, but this isn't really going to help them, is it?

Well, for me, TCI are not just a bunch of random people I don't know on a random forum. Childe and Zer0 work their ass off for us to have fun in this abandonware, I help out whenever I can, and StoryTelling to complete strangers that don't know nothing abour RPGs was my job. Yes, playing with people you know from 10, 20 years is more fun, but it has its disadvantages. None of you here are my friends, and I actually cannot be the Narrator with my close friends because it takes away the objectivity and makes me blend my setting in favor of the characters.

I could pull up a little something for the lolz, with me being the narrator and implementing a short basic setting (many sourcebooks have settings..)
As a ST, i'll give information on a need-to-know basis. Sure eveyone will know who's the Princer and what is commun knowledge for any vampire.

Eliza wrote:

In all other RPGs I've played, there's no ST or somebody similar so the players themselves decide what happens to their own character, and the moderators only interfere if somebody violates this rule (or one of the other rules, but that's not the point).
Seeing how the debate went on further, I'm quite split up now. On the one hand, I want the players to have a say in their game. Without them, there is none, after all. On the other hand, it's really damn difficult to find a balance between responsibility for players and actual plot. I called it open-end sandbox because I only know it this way. I can only offer what I can imagine and create myself. But now that Claudia actually said she would take on the responsibility of a ST, I'm not sure anymore.
My problem is that I only have experience considering RPG, not VtM. That's more Claudia's and 8people's territory, as I think.

Well if you always decide what happens to your character, that's a fanfic. You never did a RPG, just RP. And RP is just basic Pink telephone talk (except you can take out the sex part). There's nothing wrong with that, it's pure fantasy, but "this is a serious game". The goal is to have fun, yes, but if you are only deciding about your character and what happens to her, that's just no fun. ST all the way



For me, the global plot of a Vampire game is always about WHY the PC are concerned about what's going on. In Bloodlines, I like the global plot, but except from "playing", why does the PC CARES about the warehouse to begin with ? I mean, he lands us to Santa Monica. I would have get the hell out of there, install myself in a nice little town and make myself invisible

This is why I work on thhe bg with the players, to tie them closely to their city.


Concerning with or without narrator... The only part where no narrator is needed is when the PC are alone together. An Elyseum without a Narrator is wrong (we need someone to act the Keeper, the primogens, the prince, the sheriff...). And giving all the key roles to all the PC, well, it's kind of boring... -> Fanfic
As long as there is a NPC, even a cat, a rat, a nosferatu in hiding, a catedral falling from the clouds, we need a narrator ;-)

Claudia wrote:

Concerning with or without narrator... The only part where no narrator is needed is when the PC are alone together. An Elyseum without a Narrator is wrong (we need someone to act the Keeper, the primogens, the prince, the sheriff...). And giving all the key roles to all the PC, well, it's kind of boring... -> Fanfic
As long as there is a NPC, even a cat, a rat, a nosferatu in hiding, a catedral falling from the clouds, we need a narrator ;-)

Yes I think you're absolutely right about this. Even if a cathedral falling from the skies is a rather rare occurence

For the question of more than one game going on at the same time, I don't see any problems there. For every game one (or more, see below) topics can be used.

I'd suggest two or even three topics for every game. The first topic would be a general introduction for the campaign, where the storyteller presents his or her general ideas about the campaign: The location, the general rules, how many players approximately would fit in. This topic would also be used for players to apply.
When the game actually starts, it would probably need two topics. One for the actual role playing, and one for the more "off topic" part like the interpretation of certain rules and player to player talks that don't need the privacy of a PM.

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Sure I'll play along. I don't play any real games lately do to my general lack of time, so a browser-based experience suits me fine.

Ok guys, I setup the Roleplaying Category the way Eliza wanted it (at least I think I did). Take a moment to check it out and please feel free to comment on it. Before we open it to the public I want Eliza's approval on the structure, however I also want feedback from you guys on it too. Please don't PM me with your thoughts, keep them public so everyone can read it.

I'm not sure how the current structure will allow simultaneous games at once, so I want Eliza to check it out and see what she thinks first. Nothing will be set in stone until we are all happy with a setup that makes sense.

I want to play.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Yes I think you're absolutely right about this. Even if a cathedral falling from the skies is a rather rare occurence

Rare ? That's my main warning to players !
(besides it's a commun 111 result when playing In Nomine Satanis, Magna Veritas)

Quote :

I'd suggest two or even three topics for every game. The first topic would be a general introduction for the campaign, where the storyteller presents his or her general ideas about the campaign: The location, the general rules, how many players approximately would fit in. This topic would also be used for players to apply.
When the game actually starts, it would probably need two topics. One for the actual role playing, and one for the more "off topic" part like the interpretation of certain rules and player to player talks that don't need the privacy of a PM.

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For the topics, I'd go with these sections and topics :

- Rules and system, that are not in RP. This section will contain topics explaining the rules, the character sheet, the narrative system.
- BG and RP knowledge. This will describe what everyone know as a basis, the basic history of the city we're acting on, who is who in the NPCs (at least that you know of), geography, politics, known places..
- Places : each section divided geographicly, so the characters do not see what's going on at 5 miles from them, it's not like they're on the same places So when something happens in a bar, if they are on the beach, they can't know... 6th sense is bullshit This is were the characters will take action or will have conversations.

The timeline will be complicated for the plot and/or "elyseum RP", so it will probably be possible to have the same character at two places (one where he's discussing stuff with another character, idle, and one where he's in the campaign). As long as information from one or another do not show here and there, they're not Cylons

Right, sorry this post has taken so long, but my real life is dragging me along with it right now. I won't be here over the weekend, so please continue without me. I'll take a look - depending on what time permits me - either on Sunday or on Monday evening. And I can't wait to do it!

8people:
Hey, good idea. This would also be great for developing player's characters further. I mean, what is a vampire doing if he's not spending his time hunting or at Elysium? The players could surely control their own havens (maybe with their Ghouls, too?) or meetings that are purely concerning player-on-player stuff. Or their character's intention to take over a domain? (But this would be difficult to show; maybe the moderators could jump in and control the NPCs necessary for it?)

simison:
I sort of had this in mind, too, now that Claudia wants to do the ST (she still wants to, right?). If there's some sort of tutorial, I'll want to participate myself. Playing VtM is new for me, too, so it would probably do me some good. (Well, the fact set aside that I'm curious as hell as to what she'd pull off.)

8people:
Again, good idea. If there's going to be a tutorial, more experienced players could maybe take on the role of a sire (or another mentor) for the new players. I can't imagine that the ST can act as mentor for all characters at once, but then again I'm not one to know this stuff. That's why I don't have a lot to say right now, chrm chrm.

Yami:
Hell yeah, oWoD. It's Vampire: The Masquerade, not Vampire: The Requiem. Former is oWoD, latter is nWoD, if I'm not mistaken. Never bothered enough to look at the nWoD stuff.
As for rulebooks, well, the core rulebook couldn't hurt, and if it's going to be a Camarilla city (which I think it's going to be), then the Guide to the Camarilla probably won't hurt, either. Both are really fat books, if I may say so, and if you add the revised edition Clanbooks for the Clan you're going to play, it should keep you busy for a while if you're not a fast reader.
How about the books, if I'm on topic right now? I don't suppose everyone has the source material at home, or am I mistaken? I don't want to say anything that'll get me (or this board) into trouble, so I'll keep it down to 'Google'.

Malkav:
ST always has final say. That's a VIF - very important fact. If it's the ST that does the really hard work, then the ST should also have the authority to decide what works in favor for his plot and what is going to wreck it. But I don't think there'll be a lot of situations where using this authority is necessary. We're all mature enough to know when to stop, aren't we?
As for the NPCs, I would like to take over one of them, too, if there's a role that fits me and my writing style so far. (If I'd really have time to play... don't know yet.) To relieve the ST - if I can play the NPC the way he or she is supposed to be played, why not?

Zer0:
More than one game at a time? I don't know about this. Myself I'd rather not think about this just now - let's see how one RPG works, and if all goes well and smoothly, then we can think of having two at a time - if there are enough players interested, that is. But I'm not sure how many players a chronicle can support, so I step back on this question.

Claudia:
I shouldn't have written this. It seems you got it wrong. I was trying to be realistic, but never mind now, it doesn't matter.
And never mind the stuff about RP and RPG. Whatever you say, boss.
Well... I don't have anything to add or comment - again - but I take it that you're now going to be our ST, right? If not, correct me now, or I'll run around assuming things that I want to be, but aren't true. (Whew, a ST. Cool. I can rest easily! )

Malkav:
Exactly this is what I had in mind for the layout of the subsection. Of course, if there actually were two games at a time, my suggestion would have to be reworked, but for one game it should be good. Or what do you say?

Zer0:
Yes, this was exactly what it looked like in my head. Thank you very much!
And again, correct, this won't be good at all for two games at once, but I'm, again, not going to comment on this now. I don't think we'll have to worry about it, but if anyone has an idea how to make it work, well...

Claudia:
Sounds good to me. I would pack the BG and RP knowledge into the rules or the ooc section, though, because it isn't going to be written in-character, or am I mistaken here? (I feel it should be good to keep the roleplaying area clean of anything that doesn't involve roleplaying in itself. But that's just what I think.)
About the geographic places, well, it doesn't make sense to set this up now if there's no city so far. Once you're done with mapping out the region and the plotline, it'll be easier to set up anything that's needed. The places that are relevant for the plot could be seperated from the common grounds - e.g. bars, as you said - so there's always only plotrelevant roleplaying going on there. But this would be difficuklt concerning the Elysium areas ... hm. What I just suggested doesn't sound like the best idea, I guess.


Anyway, that's it from me for the next two days. Go on without me, please.

The RP subsection looks nice, but I wager it'll need to be adjusted either way in the near future, as many things come up as we go. But it is a solid base.

Okay I wanna play a 5th Generation Gangrel/Ventrue/Tremere crossbreed with True Faith and the merit "Caine's Favorite" (from an April 1st blog post on the White Wolf website, but it's still canon), with 3 ghouled werewolves and a demon ally; and before my Embrace I was a historian with the Arcanum, so my "World of Darkness Lore" Knowledge trait is six dots. Oh yeah, and my mount is a dragon/unicorn/water elemental hybrid, who is immune to fire (along with his rider) and invisible to everyone except me and Changelings.

I had written a huge reply but when I hit "send", it got deleted, so I got sad and when to bed

So, I'll rewrite it now


First, I'll ST only VTM, not VTR ;-) I know a bit of the new world of darkness, but on a forum, Camarilla's easier.

Second, corebooks. If you want you can read up "Vampire the Masquerade 3rd edition", that's the basic corebook. Do not bother reading the Camarilla one, you don't need to know about the justicars and high politics, and how's level 8 Auspex and level 7 Domination.
Actually you don't even need to read any corebook, what's explained in Bloodlines is enough information.

For an Intrigue, Political and Secrecy game, information is what the ST gives the less, only on a need to know basis. Because I'll not explain all the functions of a Tremere chantry to characters. And because players are human, players will always act a certain way according to the informations they have, even if they characters do not know.
By having the players as ignorant as possible, and giving them the information their characters know, it'll guaranty a realistic way of playing. I do not want a newborn Gangrel telling me "Oh I know that, that's a Tremere ritual by Infernalist Tremere from the Sabbat". Ever.
I like the idea of a tutorial with a Sire, since each character will be given certain information and a certain point of view of the society. Again, information and reasons to be Sired. At least, the reasons your sire gave you, if he gave you any !


Actually I don't care much about the sections and subsections. We might have a timeline problem because of us being on a forum, as characters might exist at two places at the same time (one where he'd be at an elyseum having idle RP, one during the "campaign").


Eliza, what do you want to actually "do" for this ? Do you want to create the setting ? do you want to create the npcs ? do you want to install the plots ? do you want to play the npc ? or just play your character ? Do you want the whole information of the setting I'll create, or just what you need according to the role(s) youi want/need ?


We'll probably choose a known, "big" city, because if I have to take history courses to know about Djakarta's backround.. I'd go with Mexico City (don't bother with the official WoD backround, I won't use it), since it's a huge city where anything can happen, with all nationalities, and it happens to be a city I can explain easely by the geography. I could go with Paris too (as the official approuved BG has only been released in French, so I could pick easely the info and with our pal Sarkozy as a president, things could get fun).

Um, won't the core rulebook need to be read at least for the character creation?

What, dots and what not ? That's the ST's job. You'd only need to write who you are, your backround. If you're asking to be an ex policeman used to chase thiefs and having an army BG, I'll give you firearm, brawl, dodge and physical attributes...
Sure we can discuss it after if you'd rather have melee than brawl, I'm no nazi, but first, you need to think up the persona, not the dots.

Claudia wrote:

What, dots and what not ? That's the ST's job. You'd only need to write who you are, your backround. If you're asking to be an ex policeman used to chase thiefs and having an army BG, I'll give you firearm, brawl, dodge and physical attributes...
Sure we can discuss it after if you'd rather have melee than brawl, I'm no nazi, but first, you need to think up the persona, not the dots.

That is SO different than what I'm used to, but really like actually. I'm used to Dungeons and Dragons where everything is about the numbers, stats, getting the most for your experience points, etc.... That's probably what makes D&D so different from VtM. I do like this approach alot though. Good job Claudia!

You mean, this ?


Actually, I love making charactersheets, then talk about it with the players, because if I don't, they're going to optimise the characters because of usefull caracteristics and it's not "credible" anymore. Sure, there are "useless" stats in VTM for dice, like finances or Politics, or even Medecine and streetwise.. You rarely use them with dice, but we need to have them to explain a certain backround. Having a street drug dealer that has not sstreetwise is just wrong. And finances isn't just about haggle and quantity of money you can get from selling your gold ring.
The charactersheet is a recapitulative of what your character is. As a ST for Masquerade, I'll alost never ask you to check up your charactersheet for this stat or not, because I know your BG, and know if your policeman could take a marathon or should be able to understand why his boss has made a deal with this car thief to catch a bigger fish.

Actually, for VTM, the player usually just says who he is as a human, how he got there, what are his hopes, his losses, his ties, his history. The player can tell me he'd want to be a Gangrel, for instance... But I might not agree. I'll look for my city setting, check up the NPC and see if one or another could chose the character for an Embrace. It's up to the vampire himself, for who he is and why he chose this human, not because "it fits the clan as a global description". Check out Imalia, I bet the player wanted her to be Toreador ! But it's more interesting if she's Nossie, right ? It all depends on the NPC setting, and I love interresting NPC settings

PGM1961 wrote:

Okay I wanna play a 5th Generation Gangrel/Ventrue/Tremere crossbreed with True Faith and the merit "Caine's Favorite" (from an April 1st blog post on the White Wolf website, but it's still canon), with 3 ghouled werewolves and a demon ally; and before my Embrace I was a historian with the Arcanum, so my "World of Darkness Lore" Knowledge trait is six dots. Oh yeah, and my mount is a dragon/unicorn/water elemental hybrid, who is immune to fire (along with his rider) and invisible to everyone except me and Changelings.

What? You don't want to start off as an Antediluvian already?


As for this whole "no character sheet, no dot" thing, I'm confused. Claudia, are you saying we're not going to be making sheets, right off the bat?

And if we do go with the "Sire leads the way" route, and if we have a PC Sire, I'd be happy to volunteer for it. Or if we have several, I can be one of them.

Except for the players, every other "soul" will be NPC. Even the rats are NPC.

Here's how I ST either on forums or on table :
There will be charactersheets. Except that I'll be the one making them (and then some adjustments can be done with the player of course), because I do not want players going for the dots just because "moaaaar dots !" and pick up random Flaws just to have moaaar dots. I don't want non RPG-players to be forgotten, so I'll put everyone at the same level, have you or have you not read the 315 pages of the Vampire Core Book.
I want my players to think up a human that "will" be embraced by a Vampire from the setting I'll pull up as soon as we decide the city and what do my players expect from it. Do you expect pure politics intrigue with drama and hopelessness, big plots and people playing you, or epic battles on the Tour Eiffel ? (I've done that). You want a local level, or be big bad vampires hanging from a city to another just for the lols and claim domain ? You want Ancillae and Neonates, or PGM like characters ?
Usually, I ST at local level, with 50 years old or younger PC, in 500+ year old cities.

Hm, I understand the issue of players going for the "moaaar dots" problem. Though it has never been a significant issue with me.

Yes, I have read the VTM core book, along with several of the clan books, Gehenna, and Time of the Thin Bloods.

As for expectations, I'm simply used to playing in a mostly political/investigation games. Rarely have I been part of a game that was combat-heavy.

Well, I'd prefer playing a newly embraced character. And I really don't want pure politcs! I'd probably be more the mercenary type. If sombody offers an interesting job, or an interesting reward for a stupid job, I'll do it.
So the actual setting isn't really important for me, as long as it's not only about politics and intrigue.

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I love Claudia's approach, it is superior.

There will always be some aspect of life beyond our reckoning, beyond our control. Her approach is meant to reiterate the fact that life is simply not fair. Her approach will force me to think, force me to improvise, and ultimately give me the freedom to be a writer reacting to the role play story instead of reacting to other players' lack of conviction. If one is going to throw a fit, then one shouldn't undermine the game. One should instead use their grievances to further the story. If a player is the sort of person who doesn't like being told what to do, then said player needn't play this game.

I will make due with what I'm given. This is how men are made.

Maybe I should put some, G's and K's in my character's name to make it sound more medieval?

Hey, don't look at me like that. No. Not the special boots! No. No Claudia. NOOOOO!

z.o.o. wrote:

I love Claudia's approach, it is superior.

There will always be some aspect of life beyond our reckoning, beyond our control. Her approach is meant to reiterate the fact that life is simply not fair. Her approach will force me to think, force me to improvise, and ultimately give me the freedom to be a writer reacting to the role play story instead of reacting to other players' lack of conviction. If one is going to throw a fit, then one shouldn't undermine the game. One should instead use their grievances to further the story. If a player is the sort of person who doesn't like being told what to do, then said player needn't play this game.

I will make due with what I'm given. This is how men are made.

It is a challenging approach, and one I think I can do well in, however, I would like to point out that, in the end, this is a game. A game requires players, people who are willing to interact within a ST's environment. Without players, a ST is nothing. It is a two-way street.