Political Correctness destroying US/EU?

Zer0Morph wrote:

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Israel was built where there was already a state Palestine and I don't think they liked it to be told they had to split their territory with another nation that was also very different and with an alien mind set.

Britain occupied the holy land after defeating the Ottoman empire at the end of WWI in 1922, and then gave the land of Israel to the Jews c. 1948 because it wasn't worth occupying any longer. Regardless of the result, the state of Palestine wasn't controlled by Palestinians therefore they don't have a right to bitch. Britain wanted to withdraw from the holy land and needed to give it to someone and they probably figured that the Jews would create a Free Democracy (which they did) where as the Palestinian Muslims would create a Fascist Sharia state so the decision was made to promote freedom. This was a great decision by Britain and I agree with it, not to mention the Jews did not have a place to call their own while Muslims own the entire middle east. Palestinian Muslims need to sack up and stop crying about land that wasn't theirs in the first place and focus on something more constructive than destroying Israel.

Now, let's compare what the Jewish people have done in the past 50 years with their small piece of land vs. what Palestine have done with theirs.

Wikipedia - Israel is a developed country and an OECD member,[36] with the 37th-largest economy in the world by nominal gross domestic product as of 2014. The country benefits from a highly skilled workforce and is among the most educated countries in the world with the one of the highest percentage of its citizens holding a tertiary education degree.[37][38] The country has the highest standard of living in the Middle East and the fourth highest in Asia,[39][40][41] and has one of the highest life expectancies in the world.[42] Israel is considered the most advanced country in Southwest Asia and the Middle East in economic and industrial development.[443] Israel's quality university education and the establishment of a highly motivated and educated populace is largely responsible for spurring the country's high technology boom and rapid economic development. Israel is a leading country in the development of solar energy.[454][455] Israel is a global leader in water conservation and geothermal energy,[456] and its development of cutting-edge technologies in software, communications and the life sciences have evoked comparisons with Silicon Valley.[457][458]

I won't bore you with the countless accolades of Jewish Free Israel.

Now let's take a look at what the Muslim Palestinians have done in the past 50 years with their plot of land.





This is what Palestine has done with their time, 'nuff said.

Following your thoughts then Israel shouldn't exist as since the Ist Century Rome destroyed it...
Anyway Palestinian lived along with Jews at the time of Jesus

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Do you hear us moan or demand special treatment? Flood the West? Impose Catholicism on England and burn heretics? No. We rebuild just again.

I won't quote everything Feral said, but he's dead on. Every nation, religion, or group of people have been persecuted, exploited, and humiliated at some point in history, so what do you do what that? You have a choice, you can bitch, complain, and raise hell getting you absolutely nothing, or you can learn, rebuild, and try to do it better a second time.

I see the latter as a common theme among European, Asian, and North American nations, while I see the former from Middle Eastern, African, and South American peoples. While it would be nonsense and ridiculous to say that all European, Asian, and North Americans are hard working people who don't ask for hand outs and control their own destinies while Middle Eastern, African, and South Americans are stupid, lazy, welfare dependent mongrels, but I do see a reoccurring pattern in this scenario.

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Anyway Palestinian lived along with Jews at the time of Jesus

So why can't they do it today? Why can't their be peace among these two peoples? Why aren't the Muslims happy for the Jews for finally getting a home to call their own, and try to live peacefully with their neighbors?

Zer0Morph wrote:

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Anyway Palestinian lived along with Jews at the time of Jesus

So why can't they do it today? Why can't their be peace among these two peoples? Why aren't the Muslims happy for the Jews for finally getting a home to call their own, and try to live peacefully with their neighbors?

It's like saying why Italian don't worship Zeus like Roman did?
There are nearly 2 thousands years of history in which they grew apart and they didn't live so peacefully. And Islam didn't exist at the time

That's not an answer, but don't worry, I can answer it for you.

HATE

That's why, they choose to hate instead of forgive, rebuild, and move forward.

MxM wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

Quote :

Anyway Palestinian lived along with Jews at the time of Jesus

So why can't they do it today? Why can't their be peace among these two peoples? Why aren't the Muslims happy for the Jews for finally getting a home to call their own, and try to live peacefully with their neighbors?

It's like saying why Italian don't worship Zeus like Roman did?
There are nearly 2 thousands years of history in which they grew apart and they didn't live so peacefully. And Islam didn't exist at the time

At times of Jesus there were no Palestinians. There were Jews, Samaritans, few Idumeans (mostly Jewish, but with Nabatean infusion so no halakich Jewish) and a few pagan Greeks in the Kingdom of Israel later annexed to establish Roman province of Palestine. Romans named it like that after Philistines, who were Mycenaean Greeks by ethnicity. They died out c. 800 BC or were assimilated as Jewish.

Then Erec Israel was occupied by the Romans, Byzantines (shortly Persian intermezzo under Chosrow), then Arabs. In the meantime most Jewsa and Samaritans became Orthodox Christian. Spoken language was Arameic since well before Jesus. Assyrian or Babylonian Empire times most likely. So before 8 th century AD we have Christian (mostly: leftover Jew and Samaritan still enough to riot), Arameic speaking people under Eastern Roman rule. Were they Palestinian? No. No such nation existed.

Then the Arabs came. As jizia is hard to pay, most people in the now dissolved Byzantine province of Palestine converted to Islam and Arabized. That is the time Palestinians started as a nation. Somewhere 8-10 century AD.

You may say Palestinians came from Jewish stock (don't tell that to a Palestinian if you want to live, though), but not that they lived with Jews for centuries, let alone millennia. From the tenth to 18 century Judea and Samaria were virtually void of Jews. Some lived in Galilee (Tsefad Talmud schools) and a couple dozen families in Jerusalem, but it is all. Jews lived in Italian States, Spain, Avignon (Papal enclave in France), Poland-Lithuania, (expelled from most of the rest of Europe before mid 15th century, from Spain at 1492), Morocco, Iran-Iraq area (too many states to name), Yemen and the Balkans. Jews lived among Arabs, but far from Palestine. As in thousands of kilometers far.

As for why we won't live peacefully:
1. Too much mutual bloodshed
2. Too indecisisive Israeli policies in the 50's (there were ideas to kick them out: Jordan is Palestine by ethnicity)
3. Islam. According to Quran Muslims have to be the ruling class, as Sharia has to be enforced. Only tactical compromises are halal (allowed)

Zer0, sorry to correct you but you make a very American mistake of thinking a nation starts to exist when a state does. Have you heard of Kurds? Stateless for 2500 years. A nation. Poles? 2 centuries with no independence, summing all the times with no Poland on map or as a puppet state. Poles exist. Tatars? Their last Khanate wiped out in 18th century. Still they live in Crimea. The list is much longer...
Need I mention Jews...?

Feral wrote:

MxM wrote:

Zer0Morph wrote:

Quote :

Anyway Palestinian lived along with Jews at the time of Jesus

So why can't they do it today? Why can't their be peace among these two peoples? Why aren't the Muslims happy for the Jews for finally getting a home to call their own, and try to live peacefully with their neighbors?

It's like saying why Italian don't worship Zeus like Roman did?
There are nearly 2 thousands years of history in which they grew apart and they didn't live so peacefully. And Islam didn't exist at the time

At times of Jesus there were no Palestinians. There were Jews, Samaritans, few Idumeans (mostly Jewish, but with Nabatean infusion so no halakich Jewish) and a few pagan Greeks in the Kingdom of Israel later annexed to establish Roman province of Palestine. Romans named it like that after Philistines, who were Mycenaean Greeks by ethnicity. They died out c. 800 BC or were assimilated as Jewish.

Then Erec Israel was occupied by  the Romans, Byzantines (shortly Persian intermezzo under Chosrow), then Arabs. In the meantime most Jewsa and Samaritans became Orthodox Christian. Spoken language was Arameic since well before Jesus. Assyrian or Babylonian Empire times most likely. So before 8 th century AD we have Christian (mostly: leftover Jew and Samaritan still enough to riot), Arameic speaking people under Eastern Roman rule. Were they Palestinian? No. No such nation existed.

Then the Arabs came. As jizia is hard to pay, most people in the now dissolved Byzantine province of Palestine converted to Islam and Arabized. That is the time Palestinians started as a nation. Somewhere 8-10 century AD.

You may say Palestinians came from Jewish stock (don't tell that to a Palestinian if you want to live, though), but not that they lived with Jews for centuries, let alone millennia. From the tenth to 18 century Judea and Samaria were virtually void of Jews. Some lived in Galilee (Tsefad Talmud schools) and a couple dozen families in Jerusalem, but it is all. Jews lived in Italian States, Spain, Avignon (Papal enclave in France), Poland-Lithuania, (expelled from most of the rest of Europe before mid 15th century, from Spain at 1492), Morocco, Iran-Iraq area (too many states to name), Yemen and the Balkans. Jews lived among Arabs, but far from Palestine. As in thousands of kilometers far.

As for why we won't live peacefully:
1. Too much mutual bloodshed
2. Too indecisisive Israeli policies in the 50's (there were ideas to kick them out: Jordan is Palestine by ethnicity)
3. Islam. According to Quran Muslims have to be the ruling class, as Sharia has to be enforced. Only tactical compromises are halal (allowed)

Zer0, sorry to correct you but you make a very American mistake of thinking a nation starts to exist when a state does. Have you heard of Kurds? Stateless for 2500 years. A nation. Poles? 2 centuries with no independence, summing all the times with no Poland on map or as a puppet state. Poles exist. Tatars? Their last Khanate wiped out in 18th century. Still they live in Crimea. The list is much longer...
Need I mention Jews...?

I ment the modern Palestinian lived there (racially speaking) at the same time of Jews. My English is better in reading than writing so I tend to be really concise (maybe too much)

[quote="MxM"][quote="Feral"]

MxM wrote:

I ment the modern Palestinian lived there (racially speaking) at the same time of Jews. My English is better in reading than writing so I tend to be really concise (maybe too much)

Again, there were no Palestinians. Only Jews. Some went bad and c. 10th century Palestinians appeared.

In other words, Jews and Palestinians have common (Jewish) ancestors, but there were no Palestinians before Arab conquest.

Just a clarification.

BTW, it's just as famielies work, no? And Semitic families? First Cain killed Abel, and then ther was whole Torah of stoning and behedings. But VyMB come out of it, so it wasn't all bad.

I think I'm done. As long as this topic isn't dead, the forum is for me. See you later...

Childe of Malkav wrote:

I think I'm done. As long as this topic isn't dead, the forum is for me. See you later...

So you have something against Jewish posts?

I'm on Malkav's train right now. I'm sorry this is just wrong and insane.

Feral wrote:

MxM wrote:

Feral wrote:

MxM wrote:

I ment the modern Palestinian lived there (racially speaking) at the same time of Jews. My English is better in reading than writing so I tend to be really concise (maybe too much)

Again, there were no Palestinians. Only Jews. Some went bad and c. 10th century Palestinians appeared.

In other words, Jews and Palestinians have common (Jewish) ancestors, but there were no Palestinians before Arab conquest.

Just a clarification.

BTW, it's just as famielies work, no? And Semitic families? First Cain killed Abel, and then ther was whole Torah of stoning and behedings. But VyMB come out of it, so it wasn't all bad.

IIRC correctly Jews are/were one of the twelve Israel tribes and along with Samaritan are the two still existing, the other merged with other populations/ nations. Most of those tribes so are the direct ancestors of today Palestinians.

MxM wrote:

Feral wrote:

MxM wrote:

Feral wrote:

MxM wrote:

I ment the modern Palestinian lived there (racially speaking) at the same time of Jews. My English is better in reading than writing so I tend to be really concise (maybe too much)

Again, there were no Palestinians. Only Jews. Some went bad and c. 10th century Palestinians appeared.

In other words, Jews and Palestinians have common (Jewish) ancestors, but there were no Palestinians before Arab conquest.

Just a clarification.

BTW, it's just as famielies work, no? And Semitic families? First Cain killed Abel, and then ther was whole Torah of stoning and behedings. But VyMB come out of it, so it wasn't all bad.

IIRC correctly Jews are/were one of the twelve Israel tribes and along with Samaritan are the two still existing, the other merged with other populations/ nations. Most of those tribes so are the direct ancestors of today Palestinians.

Could you reference a scholary article on this, please? As far as I know all the tribes intermarried and blended into one nation no later than by the times if Hasmoneans. Only important exception being Bait Israel from Ethiopia.

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I think I'm done. As long as this topic isn't dead, the forum is for me. See you later...

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I'm on Malkav's train right now. I'm sorry this is just wrong and insane.

Isn't this what the Darkroom is for? Is this too dark for you two? Don't you have the option to ignore this thread and focus on the rest of the forum? Why quit the entire forum because of 1 thread? That's just wrong and insane to me!

@Feral: I don't have an article, I heard o read it somewhere and thought the source accurate so I didn't verify, so I'm not sure if it's true

I don't understand the hatred or dislike for this topic though. It's normal to disagree with someone else's opinion but ignore the forum for just a thread seems wrong...

In my opinion it's not "wrong" one way or the other; live and let live. That said, on the one hand I think this topic is garbage and on the other the amount of butthurt from Malkav and Claudia over HOW WRONG IT IS I feel is way over the top of what it deserves and agree with Zer0 that leaving an entire forum for one topic is silly. Not that there is much activity on the forums these days anyhow, but I digress.

I agree with Kara and MxM, but to each his own. If they want to stop visiting a forum they've been a part of for 5 years and helped build, over 1 thread, that's their decision. Once again, FREEDOM allows them to do that hence why I'm such a fan of freedom and against any organization who tries to stomp it out and control it. Maybe that's just the American inside me speaking out, but I was born and raised to believe that every person on this planet deserves freedom of choice, speech, and opinion... and it's worth fighting for.

OMG I sound like a Brujah, HAHA!

Zer0Morph wrote:

I agree with Kara and MxM, but to each his own. If they want to stop visiting a forum they've been a part of for 5 years and helped build, over 1 thread, that's their decision. Once again, FREEDOM allows them to do that hence why I'm such a fan of freedom and against any organization who tries to stomp it out and control it. Maybe that's just the American inside me speaking out, but I was born and raised to believe that every person on this planet deserves freedom of choice, speech, and opinion... and it's worth fighting for.

OMG I sound like a Brujah, HAHA!

You sound like an American. For most Europeans nowadays and most American academic community what you say is Chinese... Cultural differences, you know.

For the record, fascism, as in national socialism is -surprise- leftist ideology.

I'm just posting to follow thread that made Malkav cry.

Jad.3 wrote:

For the record, fascism, as in national socialism is -surprise- leftist ideology.

I'm just posting to follow thread that made Malkav cry.

I am not alone!

Making Malkav and Claudia sad makes me sad. But better us to break them in than some Syrians on the street...

Jad.3 wrote:

For the record, fascism, as in national socialism is -surprise- leftist ideology.

I'm just posting to follow thread that made Malkav cry.

Not sure if trolling but Fascism is not a leftist ideology no; it's an authoritarian ideology which is almost universally described as "right-wing." National Socialism in particular was not left-wing whatsoever; if anything it was about as right-wing as you could go while Communism was as far left-wing as you could go. Stalinism is the only example of authoritarian left-wingism, if you can call it that.

Karavolos wrote:

Jad.3 wrote:

For the record, fascism, as in national socialism is -surprise- leftist ideology.

I'm just posting to follow thread that made Malkav cry.

Not sure if trolling but Fascism is not a leftist ideology no; it's an authoritarian ideology which is almost universally described as "right-wing." National Socialism in particular was not left-wing whatsoever; if anything it was about as right-wing as you could go while Communism was as far left-wing as you could go. Stalinism is the only example of authoritarian left-wingism, if you can call it that.

Sorry to break you in, but you fell to Moscovs propaganda. I was born under leftist totalitarianism. As millions of people in countries from Cuba to Vietnam.

Nasism is a communism for one nation, communism is nasism for all nations. In nasism you hate other races, in communism other social classes.
I may go on a quoting spree when I have time.

Hitler gavew Germans: workplace regulations, social insurance, paid sick leave, welfare, ideology (enforced by single party), animal rights (true, preamble to the law written personally by Himmler), political police, strict obedience to the regime, central planning (Speer anyone?)...

Now substitute Hitler for Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro... List still mostly holds, no?

You theorize, I lived in this crap.

"The greatest victory of communism is convincing people that fascism is right-wing."

Oh Christ, I started reading up on it and got to a page of called "Definitions of Fascism" which has like thirty entries below the intro post; no way I'm reading that. That said, I did find this bit here:

Wikipedia wrote:

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and liberalism, attracting support primarily from what in a classical sense is called the "far right" or "extreme right." Fascists are generally strongly anti-capitalist subordinating individual rights, profit and property rights to the State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

So what I can conclude from this is that I was wrong to think Fascism on the other side of the spectrum of "anarchy left" and were basing calling it right-wing on it being generally described as such; but that it still is not a left-wing ideology (or even necessairly right-wing) as it can crop on either side. This is about as far as I wanna take this arguement; I don't feel much else is gained from this headache.

Let's focus on the important stuff:

Karavolos wrote:

I was wrong